THERE IS MUCH debate about tackling in rugby at the moment and the degree to which it should be punished.
In yesterday’s Wales-Ireland game, Bradley Davies was sin-binned for what looked a dangerous tackle on Donnacha Ryan.
Many people have compared it to a similar tackle for which Sam Warburton was sent off during Wales’ World Cup semi-final with France.
In addition, Stephen Ferris was sin-binned for what seemed a far more innocuous tackle in the dying seconds of the game (you can view both incidents below).
So what do you think? Are rugby officials being too harsh? Or are they being overly lenient? Or perhaps they need to develop a greater consistency in their decision-making?
Let us know what you think in the comment section below.
YouTube credit: ElliotJack1
The IOC have previously said that this is about sport and not about politics. While this atrocity should be remembered it should not be part of the games itself otherwise it would lead to a precedent where everybody would be looking for a minutes silence for something.
True except this actually happened at the Olympics
Again the IOC reasoning is that it happened during the Olympics and not actually at the Olympics (even thought the initial assault was in the Olympic village). This is why they are proposing that a remembrance ceremony takes place at the airfield where the athletes lost their lives. As the deaths occurred off site this would give way to things like a minutes silence for the 30th anniversary of Bloody Sunday etc. So where does it all end? That apparently is the reasoning behind their decision which I think makes sense when you think about it.
How would it lead to calls for remembering Bloody Sunday etc, did that take place at an Olympics? No it didn’t. The IOC have a lot to answer for. The lack of security at the athletes village in Munich allowed the Black September terrorists to get in so easily in the first place. And the reasoning that it occured offsite is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. Had the Germans accepted Israeli help it would’ve been ended in the Olympic village. Sadly the Germans, who had no specialist counter terrorism force at the time, opted to implement their own poorly thought out plan and the kack handed attempt at a rescue allowed the terrorists time to murder the Israelis. The Israelis would not have been there were it not for the Olympics. The least the IOC should do is remember the anniversary of the murder of the innocent members of the Israeli delegation. That they continued on with the Munich Olympics was disgraceful, yes they had a memorial service in Munich – one which most arab countries refused to attend – but to refuse to remember it on the 40th Anniversary in London is a disgrace.
Brian, who said its about politics? It’s about 11 murdered athletes. Save the criticism for the black September movement who carried out this crime.
Declan who was I criticizing? I was stating the position of the IOC that has been in the media over the last 2 or 3 months. If you think that I have no criticism of the Black September movement then why did I use the word “atrocity”?
The attack was a politically motivated act and so politics does come into this. As a result IOC officials cite 5.50.3 of the Olympic Charter to rule out a further minutes silence at these games. What the pro-commemoration lobby won’t tell you is that there has already been a minutes silence for this atrocity. That happened in 1972 and there is a commemoration every games since. A member of the Israeli OC has even come out against the idea saying that it would be divisive.
That is the IOC position and I have merely restated their position so if you have a problem with that take it up with the IOC not me.
First of all he didn’t say “forget about it” he said that they would be commemorated at a different event. Secondly Israeli injustice in Palestine does not mean innocent Jews being killed is ok. It sounds as if you’re using the plight of the Palestinians as a platform to promote an antisemitic message.
Barry, I’m not sure you know the history of the Munich games or the plotting and the fact that the Munich Olympic committee were told to take extra precautions because they heard that there may be an incident, but they did not.
However, eleven men, forget that they were Israeli, were killed that day. Men with families and loved ones. After the massacre happened, the Olympics continued on. Joe Hermens, a Dutch distance runner dropped saying,”you give a party and someone is killed at that party, you go home.”. The wife of one of the murdered athlete went to the Olympic games following 1972, but her husband memory was never honored. The eleven men who came and peace and went home dead were never given justice. Would it really hurt to give just ONE MINUTE of silence? Put politics aside, if this was your country, or your relative, how would you feel?
There should be some kind of ceremony for the victims of the cowardly terrorist outrage.
He said there would be.
Indeed he did but not in London or during the games !
And he gave clear reasons why there would not be one I’m London at the games. Clearly, the feeling is that adding a remember wince to the ceremony may be seen as a provocation and as proof of political bias. Personally, I think this concern is justified. The Orangemen marches are also acts of remembrance, they also provoke conflict rather than dissipate it.
This actually crossed my mind a few months back and I thought to myself, they will definately try and take advantage of this. Yes I said take advantage of this.
How many Palestinians have been murdered / tortured / incarcerated / mamed in the Gaza concentration camp since Munich? What dates are allowed to be remembered? No because the 21st century Holocaust will not be televised.
Alot has changed since WW2 and Munich – There isnt a need for a “We should never forget” media push anymore. Israel is one of the strongest countries in the world since it has infused itself into the top tiers of the US government. Pity has become a useful tool for certain zionists.
We should remember ALL tragedies. I deplore all violence. But we must move on.
It has become so obvious in recent decades that zionists use tactics like this. If we mark this event, then we must mark every event.
Anti-gentilism is just as bad as anti-semitism.
When you use the word Zionist, it is all I need to see to know you have a completely blinkered outlook, blaming Israel for all ills in the world. This has nothing to do with Gaza, this is about the murder of innocent Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics by Palestinian terrorists of the Black September Movement and the failure of the IOC to remember them. There can never be any justification for what the terrorists did.
MTurner, I sincerely hope you are just trying to get a rise with those comments & don’t actually believe that nonsense you are spouting.
Your idea of atonement is disgusting to say the least, Mr Basstard
He should be made to stand down now, not in twelve months time, how do these men, get into such positions of power, eg F I f A , another nutter.
The President of the US, Canada and Italy among many more have called on the Olympic movement to take a moments silence. The Olympic movement have been shameful in their lack of any commemoration ever since that awful massacre. Two billion people will be watching the opening ceremony. How many will be watching an airfield? Perhaps if they had marked this shameful stain on the Olympics before now this would not be necessary but to say that it is not appropriate is a disgrace. It is not a matter that it was Israeli or Jewish athletes it is a matter of rememberance and respect for an act of terror which took 11 Olympians lives on this the 40th anniversary.
I totally agree with you there Nicky. Also, it only one minute! Why is SO much fuss being made about one minute? Surely that one minute’s silence isn’t going to really detract from the opening ceremony of the Olympics.
The impact from that horrific massacre, on the Olympics 40 years ago, most certainly would have dampened the mood of the Olympics. Therefore, to say that a minute’s silence in the opening ceremony is going to spoil things is totally outrageous!!!!
As you say, Nicky “It is not a matter that it was Israeli or Jewish athletes, it is a matter of remembrance and respect for an act of terror which too 11 Olympians lives on this 40th Anniversary”
Except the bit where it’s not the anniversary, obviously.
these people were murdered at the Olympic games in the Olympic village. Putting politics aside, if a footballer dies in a match what is done? Hillsborough disaster what was done? minute silence. If the Olympic comity had had memorial at the games or the games after then for PEOPLE murdered all this would not really reoccur every 4 years. Now it has become such a political issue people threaten to boycott. I guarantee you now that the same people who have the issue with it will refuse to play an Israeli team. I agree remember all tragedies and try and learn from them , this one happened at the Olympics so seems natural to remember it at the event where it occurred ,, common sense really. A compromise would be to have ceremony in Olympic stadium and have no flags or team uniforms,, come to think about it how about Olympics without countries just sporting events no national teams,,,,, and then may the true Olympic spirit prevail.
The Olympics in itself are about bringing people together so that these atrocoties dont happen in the future. Lets use every minute to make it work, not stay silent
Barry, you should change your first name to “Bad” or “Shameful”
Jesus if we had a minutes silence for the amount of atrocities being perpetrated on a daily basis world wide, there would be infinite silence….. Bloody world is doomed and I am an optimist.
“We feel that the opening ceremony is an atmosphere that is not fit to remember such a tragic incident,”
If this is the case then somebody needs to explain to me why we continue to hold minute silences at football games for Hillsborough as recently as this very year, as well as the Manchester United Munich disaster and honouring the victims of non-sporting tragedies like Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.
“Oh, but that was a long time ago. This is supposed to be a joyous event.” is not an excuse, it’s a cop out. I sincerely doubt that a moments silence will set a melancholy tone for the duration of the games. The only thing that can accomplish that is unpredictable English weather.
Dragging the Palestinian conflict into it is neither fish nor fowl in the context of this event but that has never stopped the usual “experts” on TJ from using it as a launch pad for their all-too-predictable verbal effluvia against all things Israeli let alone the IDF.
Barry,
They do a minutes silence for accidents and disasters. Not for terrorist acts, political motivations, power lobbies etc.
Ah, so when nobody is to blame it’s ok. I see…
Which Barry is that, Declan? :)
It’s obviously a hugely contentious issue. I’d just prefer the opening ceremony to be all sunshine and light. I don’t think its the ideal mood setter to do it during the opening ceremony. Was it done at any previous opening ceremonies? Barcelona 92 etc? I can’t recall. Anyone?
That’s the point. It’s never been done and now it has been 40 years. It’s about time something is done.
Minutes silences are commonplace inside and outside sport.
The problem here is it’s Israel.This is an issue concerning them and the OC-other issues are seperate.
Click your dislike buttons all you like about anything to do with Israel,but be honest about why you’re doing it.
Dassie there was a minutes silence for the attack in 1972 and a commemoration every games since. Also every games invariably carries a story about the Munich attack so it is for from forgotten.
Would the reasoning for not commemorating these murdered athletes have something to do with Arab countries objecting? The IOC don’t want to offend Arab countries participating? Can the journal check this? In sporting events when tragedy happens it gets commemorated! Shame on the IOC.
You know well its nothing to do with ‘Arab countries’.
Your suggestion and reason behind it is obvious.
Nobody knows well if it was Arab leaders or not and maybe nobody ever will. All I know is that God forbid the leaders of certain belligerent states would remain still for the sake of Israeli honour.
No I don’t know that’s why I asked the journal.
Seemingly, any athletes who refuse to compete against Israelis (and THIS is where politics actually comes into it) will be disciplined. I’ll believe that if/when it happens.
Arab countries & more importantly Arab money.
Why not a minutes silence for all those innocents murdered by any weapon and to express our wish for the elimination of all killing weapons in the hands of either citizens or governments.
The IOC and those who support their decision appear to be very short-sighted – not for Israel, but for their own future. If there is a terror attack at the London Olympics, they would be committed to NOT holding a minute’s silence for any victims.
The west made the same mistake when it comes to solving the Middle East conflict. Instead of zero tolerance of Palestinian terrorism, the west made excuses – in the media and in government policy. The west is paying the price for that now, in its own war on terrorism, and in the lack of a solution to the ME conflict.
Yeah zero tolerance of Palestinian terrorism and blind eyes to the terrorisation of Palestinians in their own country, because that’s worked really well so far.
@ Richard Keogh,
I use the word Zionist (And mention GAZA) as they are the people who are pushing for this. Ordinary decent Jews want to move on from this and not have a soccer tourament, world games or any NON political platform used as a tool to drum up pity. I have Jewish friends and they are sick to the their back teeth of this. They want to move on.
I dont have a blinkered outlook on the world and I do NOT blame Israel for the wrongs in the world. My jewish friends in Israel and elsewhere in the world are embarresed to be represented in such a manor.
As its been said above, remember this elsewhere, not some grandstanding infront of 2 billion people, which is exactly what certain people want.
Respect should be shown for the victims and their poor familes but not by false political means.
have to agree with @mturners points
Consider the precedent – There has been a moment of silence at the Olympics remembering a dead athlete – Nodar-Kumaritashvilis.
But of course he wasn’t an Israeli, so no-one objected to doing the morally correct thing.
After the Munich attack the games were suspended for the first time in modern history, 80,000 spectators and 3,000 athletes attended a memorial service and flags of most countries were flown at half mast. Nodar-Kumaritashvilis didn’t get that.
Brian – “After the Munich attack the games were suspended for the first time in modern history, ”
The games should have been stopped. Dutch distance runner Jos Hermens as saying, “You give a party, and someone is killed at the party, you don’t continue the party. I’m going home.”
“80,000 spectators and 3,000 athletes attended a memorial service and flags of most countries were flown at half mast.”
Which countries wouldn’t have their flags at half-mast? Oh yes, that’s right. Arab countries.
” Nodar-Kumaritashvilis didn’t get that.” Nodar-Kumaritashvilis wasn’t murdered simply for being who he is.
You don’t hold a minute’s silence at a party. It’s different if it’s a fresh memory but dragging up old wounds? He had just died less than a week before the ceremony, going on without marking it would be disrespectful but periods of mourning pass. Ok let’s imagine a new years party…optimism, hope, new beginnings and just before the count-down let’s put a downer on things by reminding everyone of all the bad stuff that happened decades ago, let’s put sad images on screens and lower the flags. No! It’s a celebration, not a commemoration. They have a moment’s silence at Hillsborough but they don’t do it in the middle of a carnival atmosphere with musicians, actors, singers and dancers all somber with heads bowed. Time and a place, maybe the closing ceremony but not the opening.
Michelle- “The games should have been stopped. ” Initially the games were going to be stopped but ” Brundage and others who wished to continue the Games prevailed, stating that they could not let the incident halt the Games.[38] Brundage stated “The games must go on, and we must… and we must continue our efforts to keep them clean, pure and honest.”[40] The decision was endorsed by the Israeli government and Israeli Olympic team chef de mission Shmuel Lalkin.[41]” (Wikipedia) Note the fact that it was endorsed by the Israeli Government and the Israeli OC, so where is the problem there?
. “Which countries wouldn’t have their flags at half-mast? Oh yes, that’s right. Arab countries.”
10 Arab countries out of 21 objected to their flags being flown at half mast which I think is disgraceful as politics should be kept out of sport. Not all Arab countries however carried out this act.
Nodar-Kumaritashvilis died I a sporting accident and was commemorated as is the custom during the games for the tragic death of an athlete. As I outlined already the 11 murdered athletes didn’t just get a minutes silence, they got an unprecedented suspension of the games and the games were nearly called off. The Israeli Government backed the continuance of the games as a show of defiance against terrorism. Now at a time of great instability in the ME Israeli’s want to drag all of this up again?
I agree with him. The opening ceremony is not the place to hold a minute’s silence. It’s for spectacle and to set the tone for the rest of the Games.
let the games begin…
listen to the wife of Andre on the bbc outlook program , she is as ordinary and decent a human as I have heard with no hatred and teaching her children not to hate the people who murdered their father,,
here is the link
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/outlook/outlook_20120719-1332a.mp3
to say so of or want to move on after you hear this woman ,,,,,,,,,,, just for her I would stand for two minutes not one,,,
Fair play he’s dead right. Perhaps if the games were in Germany it’d be more fitting.
I agree with Alex, but the forum for his action as at the un who are impotently “observing” syrians being murdered, it should be a crime against humanity to produce lethal weapons
London Olympics: A festival of incompetence and corruption.
My comment was deleted again, well done journo, nice to see you promoting free speech.