AS MEGAN THYNNE and her Meath teammates walked off the Croke Park turf after the All-Ireland intermediate camogie final last September, the mutual feeling was relief.
The clash with Cork finished 1-9 a-piece, meaning a second day out three weeks later. The Rebels, it must be said, let the victory slip as they missed several second-half chances to put away the 2012 All-Ireland junior champions, and to put the game to bed.
The Royals were smiling though.
“In the first game in Croker, I think we never really justified what we can do,” Thynne tells The42, fresh and ready for a new campaign at the Littlewoods Ireland National Camogie Leagues 2018 launch last week.
“Coming off the pitch, we were delighted that we had a second chance. Everyone was saying, ‘Oh, are ye not upset?’ but we were just happy to be going for another three weeks.”
The 21 days came and went, and Meath knew exactly what they had to do on second asking. They started on the back foot but soon found their rhythm, pulling away in a low-scoring affair.
It finished 0-10 to 0-7 with the Jack McGrath Cup heading Boyneside for the winter months. Of course, the mood was euphoric and the atmosphere electric but again, that sense of relief crept in as the final whistle sounded.
“We pulled ahead but anything could have happened,” Thynne explains. “They could have got a goal to get back into it.
“At the end, it was unbelievable. You can’t even think or describe it in words. Everyone was just very emotional to think that we finally did it.
“In the county, we were probably expected as a team to have won it a few years earlier, having already won the junior. It was a five-year gap altogether between junior and intermediate. It was definitely a special moment.
“Winning against Cork, it’s something else,” she smiles as she recalls that glorious day at the Gaelic Grounds.
And they fairly celebrated that one? ”Oh yeah, definitely. The week after was a bit of a write off!”
1 October is but a memory for the 18-year-old midfielder, and after a few short weeks of the off-season she’s ready for more. Thynne helped steer her club Kilmessan to All-Ireland junior glory on the first Sunday in December but by that stage, her county teammates were already back to the grind.
She rejoined them shortly after and lined out in their opening Division 1 League encounter against Waterford last weekend. A loss ensued, but in the days running up to their 2018 opener, Thynne was relishing the challenge.
“Playing Division 1 League and senior championship for Meath camogie, it’s a huge step for the county,” she continued, adding that it was important for younger girls to see so they could strive towards that level.
“We’re just back to where we were (starting another year). But that’s what you want, That’s what you have to do and where you want to be.
“Getting to play against everyone’s first teams — they’re the best players in their counties — it’s only going to make us better as a team.
“You want to push yourself as an individual player as well to be the best that you can be and that’s the only way that’s going to help it, to be playing faster and more physical games than we have been.
“We got to play Division 1 League last year and I think that definitely pushed us on to win the intermediate, in all fairness. They were the toughest games we were going to have all year, the League, and they definitely stood to us by the end of it.”
As well as the camogie, Thynne also donned the green and gold jersey for the footballers in 2017 as they reached the All-Ireland intermediate semi-final but bowed out to eventual champions Tipperary.
She’s committing to both codes at inter-county level again this year, her honest enthusiasm shining through as she confirms her plans. Another challenge she’s relishing.
“Last year, at the start of the year, Meath football was nowhere where it was meant to be and by the end of the year, we completely changed that concept within the county.
“We definitely want to push on. There’s probably an intermediate football title there that could be won.”
The life of a dual player was a topic discussed at length at the launch which was hosted by the Irish Museum of Modern Art. Tipperary’s Orla O’Dwyer was another of the group of 10 players from across the country who plays both codes at inter-county level.
And both players shared similar points and insights on balancing both, and the commitment involved.
“It is tough but I enjoy playing and I love playing,” Thynne says.
“I don’t know what else I’d be doing with my evenings anyway! I’m happy to be out training. It’s only going to be better for me. I’m so used to it. I’ve played my whole life.
“Since I was a child I’ve played both. All my underage years, I’ve played both camogie and football for the county. At the start, people would have been like, ‘Oh, you might have to pick when you’re older’ but if other counties can do it, so can we.
“I’m happy I’m doing both. It’s nice to go back and forth. If you’re not having a good day, you know yourself, you can change it up and focus on something else.”
“I think it’s definitely stood to us. I’ll just keep it going as long as I can anyway.”
And like O’Dwyer, she feels that both codes benefit each other — football makes her fitter for camogie and camogie makes her stronger for football.
“I definitely think those things stand to you. Even eating right and just being in a routine. The small things even; concentration, skills, they can go back and forth.”
She adds: “Management are very good. They allow me to go between the two.
“For the next couple of weeks, I’ll be flat out with a game every weekend but sure these things happen, you have to get on with it. If you want to do it, you have to deal with it.”
As the old saying goes, Thynne is most definitely a wise head on young shoulders. She’s opted to study Childcare at third level, and does so online so she could keep on her job at a nearby creche.
She gets the studies done whenever she can, often in the morning before work, and ‘it’s working out grand,’ she assures me.
“It’s right to have a routine and be busy,” she nods.
With the camogie league pretty much in full swing again, and the football equivalent kicking off on 28 January, it’s hard not to be busy.
John Davis is at the helm of the camogie side once again — the 69-year-old has steered the Royals all the way from Junior B to senior level championship, and from Division 4 to Division 1 of the National League — and their next task comes against Limerick later today
The team has changed ever so slightly for the early exchanges of 2018, they’re waiting on injured players to return while younger talents have made the jump to senior level.
“It’s a bit changed but we were at this stage last year that we’re in,” she concedes. “Hopefully everything will click and it will come together.”
Placed in Group 2 with reigning league champions Kilkenny and today’s opponents Limerick, and joined by the resurgent Dublin and Waterford, Meath find themselves in a tough pool.
That doesn’t faze Thynne though. She’s only raring to go, and delighted to be competing against the best of the best week in, week out.
“The top teams obviously — it’s going to be tough,”she concludes.
“As long as we just give it our best shot, I think everyone has enough heart and determination to do that. Anything can happen on a day. If we give it a good go and get everyone to the right fitness and skill level (we’ll succeed).
“Obviously (there’s) smaller teams compared to the Corks and Kilkennys. But it’s fairly even between us all.
“I think anything could happen, or come out of it. As long as we stay up there, we’ll be happy.”
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Poor from the irfu and not fair on a player who has done so much good for Irish rugby.
Paddy Jackson has learned so much from him, that alone is worth his wages.
Hey Chris,
Was that you writing an article for Harpin On Rugby?
Yeah Cian it was. I think harpo is just trying to keep me quite. I am going to do one a week.
It was very good, Chris. And such balanced tone. I didn’t think you had it in you! :)
Do they have spellcheck?
Going to check that out. Cheers.
Bit of a disappointing way to go. Great player for Ulster, though. He’ll be a hard man to replace. Wish him all the best.
Could he have pledged for Ireland maybe and circumvent it that way, or can you not change once you’re capped
He was playing for the Springboks only a short while ago and has plenty of caps. There is no justifiable grounds for him to be allowed play for Ireland, and he wants to play for SA regardless. You can’t just flip flop on your nationality, when you play for a country you commit your test career to that country. He’s given a lot to Irish rugby, but that’s a bit of an extreme measure.
Seems a strange decision to allow Piutau to come yet deny Pienaar. Pienaar doesn’t appear to be blocking many young players at Ulster. Paul Marshall is the regular back up at 9 and he’s on the wrong side of 30. Whereas Piutau will be playing in a position where we already have an embarrassment of riches. Seems a tad inconsistent. As exciting as Piutau is, on balance I’d rather keep Ruan.
What’s more inexplicable for me is the decision to keep on Ludik. There are better places they could have used their project player place on, and it won’t aid the development of players like Stockdale. He’s a decent enough player, but he’s not really needed.
Piutau’s arrival allows Payne to play regularly in the centre . That suits the IRFU .
They will also be needed. It’s a long season and everyone will get plenty of game time.
Surely the summer tour proves that Payne’s best position for Ireland is full back. Would hate to see him pushed back into centre.
Ulster fan. Devastated he’s leaving, his family are based and he’s now settled here. The fella lives Ulster Rugby and I’ve been delighted to meet him a few times. However we all knew this time was coming. To be frank, I expected the IRFU to come in on this a few years ago. Needs to be sorted though, we have some poor quality NIQ lads here who are looking for a stepping stone or the big paycheck. Pienaar never struck me as that and he bought into the philosophy around Ravenhill. He’ll be missed but we have to look at his influence and be glad we had him while we did
It is not Ruan that should be leaving. That distinction should go to Nucifora who is doing all he can to wreck Irish rugby. His favourite word seems to be no. IRFU are paying him a huge salary and I have yet to see any benefits. The decision to abandon Pienaar will influence the decision of other players to come to Ireland.
What rule is stopping pienaar from staying on ?
That’s a big loss for Ulster. How come no province made an attempt to bring James Hart back? He’s still young, has plenty of experience and is Irish qualified. Maybe Hart is happy in France but he could have been tempted home.
Munster have Murray, Ulster still had Pienaar and Connacht have Marmion. Even if Murray doesn’t play that much Hart would still be second choice there. Leinster are the only ones who could have really gone after him, but they chose to get JGP instead. You always want to see good Irish players abroad to come back, but I think that Hart is nearly better off where he is.
Hart is a good swap for Pienaar , a place kicking scrum half who can stand in at 10 comfortably .Perhaps Racing will think the same , Hart’s wage in Paris would be the main stumbling block for Ulster .
James Hart (decent enough by all accounts) is however nowhere near the level of Pienaar. Hart had a decent season two years back but had a stop start one last year so to compare a seasoned Springbok to Hart is delusional.
Pienaar showed loyalty to Ulster a few years back when bigger clubs came calling and now that he’s approaching 33 the IRFU have stung him, very poor decision.
I’m not comparing Hart directly to Pienaar , but Ulster are overloaded with NIQ’s and Pienaar is the oldest and probably one of the most expensive . He still missed out on large chunks of games through his international availability up to recently . Piatau will be 100% available barring injury and is a lot younger , Ireland need another competitive 9 playing for the provinces now that Reddan and Boss are gone and Ulster need younger players in that position. Paddy Jackson should be able to stand on his own two feet now , he certainly did so this summer .
Both Murray and Marmion will miss plenty of games due to international fixtures. I think Murray only played 5/6 pro12 games for Munster last season. Even if Hart went to ulster he would be would learn plenty from Piennar for one season and then it’s up to him. There are pros and cons to every move but where ever Hart landed in Ireland he would get plenty of game time.
While I agree with you there Paul, I guess I just feel that he wouldn’t come back to Ireland and turn down the lucrative contract he was offered for what is still at the end of the day a second choice place, no matter what game time he felt he might get. But none of the provinces went for him in the end so arguing about whether or not he should have come back is kind of a moot point.
One reason that he’s not being pursued is that Hart hasnt featured in any Irish teams (under 20′s, B team etc), plus hes just signed for Racing.
Luke McGrath looked like the real deal but hasnt progressed at senior level adequately enough so far. Cooney is back up now in the West and probably not far off being capped.
As for Duncan William’s, hmmm!
The truth is that there is a real dearth of quality in the position across the board.
I’ve heard that hart was approached but no one was willing to match his French wages. He stuck with money. Not a big loss in my opinion
Ulster overloafed eith NIQs? Name them Limon.
- Anton Peikrishvili, Georgia,
- Franco van der Merwe, South Africa
- Marcel Coetzee, South Africa
- Louis Ludik, South Africa
- Wiehan Herbst, South Africa
- Charles Piautau, New Zealand
- Ruan Pienaar, South Africa
Ulster look like they are starting to bring through a lot of academy lads in the backline but even outside of that group above you have a colossal number of project players or foreigners signed with irish heritage. For example Herring, Tuohy, Black, Diack, Reidy, Payne, Ah You etc.
Thats not to discredit these people but just to highlight that there is a huge lack of starting XV players that have come through the academy. The writing was on the wall for this one for a while. Where was the forward planning when they instead secured a huge number of back three players.
Donal, that’s a bit disingenuous, Peikrishvili is a direct replacement for Herbst.
Robert, even if you discount him, they still exceed the NIQ quotas. They could probably cope without some of those NIQ’s easier than being without Pienaar, but they’re signed those guys and they payed the price.
Thomas, I don’t believe this is an issue of NIQs, this is a “succession policy” anomaly. My understanding is that Ludik is the project player and Herbst is shortly to become Irish qualified, if he isn’t already – he was signed, originally, as a project player. That means that Ulster have the requisite 4 NIQs, one of which is Peinaar.
Peikrishvili has been signed until 19 December as emergency injury cover. Franco, Coetzee, Piatau and Ruan are NIEs not NIQs. Herbst and Ludik are NIQs and will be eligible in Summer 2017. Diack and Payne were NIQs but are now full internationals. Ah You was signed by Ulster as a full international. Herring, Tuohy, Black and Reidy qualify through family and were never NIEs. As for the starting XV, 8 of them are Ulster born and bred. The huge number of back 3 players secured…Ludik and Piatau?
Thanks D
Massive loss and while I understand the need for the NIQ quotas, surely exceptions can be made for the likes of Pienaar. He has been one of the main factors in Ulster’s revival and ha been a great servant for 6 years. Maybe there is an obvious successor he is blocking from progressing or Ulster need the NIQ spot for Piatau or Coetzee but pity to see such an influential and committed players who wants to stay being forced to move to the Top14 when we are already struggling to compete with them.
Reminds me of the crap with Paul Warwick at Munster being only offered a 1 year extension. The guy lived for the provence
He lived for Connacht first
That’s a terrible decision..stupid rule..big loss to ulster and a shame for all of us interested in the pro12 that we won’t see him play here anymore..
What Ulster scrumhalves have been prevented from becoming star players by Pienaar?
How were Leinster left sign Gibson Park leaving just 2 provinces starting Irish scrum halves. McGrath and McCarthy are getting the same kick Maddigan got when they replaced Sexton
No idea how they were allowed sign him (although it does look like a great signing). Priority should really be given to the retention of the incumbent province to retain their player over another province signing a new one up. Is it something got to do with Gibson Park being a project player whereas Pienaar is totally NIQ? Perhaps if Pienaar wasn’t playing international rugby he’d have been retained.
You are assuming Park will start for Leinster.
If he plays like he did for the Hurricanes in the semi final I’d expect him to. Admittedly, it’s easy coming on as a sub, but he was an absolute live wire with all the positive play going through him. He’s an ambitious player, and with TJ Perenara ahead of him in the pecking order there was no way he was getting enough game time.
It’s amazing how foreign players can become Irish internationals through eligibility processes & yet they have a ‘succession policy’. Policies seem inconsistent with each other.
Watched Ulster on TV so many times, just watching Ruan’s play. Absolutely mesmeric, a mastery of his position that you rarely see. It’s a huge loss to Pro12
Yeah as a Leinster fan I have to admit it, if it’s the case Ruan has to leave due to Gibson-Park coming in it stinks. Great player ads to the league and I would have thought there would be a chance he’d stay on to coach after playing, which is also a huge loss to Irish rugby considering his experience
Pienarr to Connacht, Marmion to Ulster anyone?
This leaves Ulster with Paul Marshall – 31, Angus Loyd – 23 ( His first season as a pro ), and in the academy Dave Shanahan and Jonathon Stewart both uncapped for Ulster (according to their website anyway). Not really acceptable for a team of Ulster’s pedigree. The only Positive being a decision was made early and there’s plenty of time to search for a replacement. They best they can really hope for is to add some more experience, there’s not too many top quality Irish scrumhalves knocking around. Unless they unearth a granny rule player.
Ah what a shame. Ulster have nothing like a 9 with that quality.
Can someone explain the IRFU succession policy?
Essentially it’s a policy that restricts numerous renewals to contracts for foreign players & also prevents a club replacing a non-Irish playing position with another. It’s designed to prevent an overflow of foreign players in Irish teams boxing out up and coming Irish players. Personally I think it’s bullshit, with the work in the academies & development of players in the Ulster Bank league, that’s never going to happen anyway.
Thanks Jimmy, but I just don’t get it. Surely if Pienaar were to sign another extension then he would be one of the Ulster NIQ quota? Are we confusing the two i.e. NIQ quotas and “IRFU succession policy”? I agree, it’s bullshit, Pienaar has done more to promote the game in Ulster since Mike Gibson. Let’s see if they apply it across the board.
Robert as I understand it the idea is that the provinces should be using the years they have a NIQ to develop home grown options.
For example Munster had BJ Botha for the past few years. He has left and gone to Lyon and IQ John Andress and local players Stephen Archer / John Ryan / Brian Scott will be expected to suffice this season.
The IRFU want to avoid a situation where a province gets used to a foreign player and therefore has to keep signing foreign replacements. For example back a few years ago again BJ Botha was in Ireland playing for Ulster. When he left he was replaced by All Black, John Afoa. When Afoa left he has been replaced by Wian Herbst.
Munster were similarly awful for it when it came to outside centres. Tipoki replaced by Tuitupou replaced by Jean de Villiers replaced by Casey Laulala replaced by Andrew Smith replaced by Francis Saili. Thats not including the injury cover we drafted in from Will Chambers, Pat Howard and now Jaco Taute.
Donal, I get that but I’m having difficulty squaring the circle with Gibson-Park’s signing by Leinster.
I still think there’s hypocrisy in there. And inconsistency too, as happy as I am to see Isa Nacewa back for Leinster, presumably this succession rule wouldn’t have allowed him to renew a couple of years ago. I’m guessing here but they probably loopholed that by the fact he wasn’t there for a couple of seasons & it was a brand new contract. And yet a South African (Stander) is now one of Ireland’s best players. Don’t get me wrong, delighted to have him in the international squad but to open doors at international level & close them at provincial level is double standards. And now Ulster are losing one of their best players of the last number of years, a man who is settled & raising a family in Belfast and doesn’t want to leave. Like I said, bullshit.
In a nut shell Robert, there can be only one NIE/NIQ player in any one position across all 4 provinces (unless Nucifora says so) to maintain the production line and development of indigenous players.
Didn’t know that Andrew, thanks. Still think it’s a crap policy.
Perhaps something that influenced the IRFU’s decision was that Ulster have a fair few NIQ players right now. I might be sounding like I’m having a go at Ulster but I’m not. Right now the IRFU rules state that you can have four NIQ players and one project player. Ulster have Herbst, Pienaar, Piutau, Coetzee and Van Der Merwe in the NIQ spots and Ludik in the project player place, and they have just been allowed to sign Peikrishvili on a short term contract. Perhaps they felt that too many Irish player’s paths were getting blocked? I do feel a fair bit unhappy about this decision, but I can understand why it would make sense to Nucifora.
Thomas, I refer the honourable gentlemen to the answer I gave some moments ago. My understanding is Herbst IQ, Ludik, project player and Van de Merwe, Coetzee, Piatau and Pienaar the four NIQ. The Georgian prop is an emergency signing as Ah You is the only fit TH.
How is Herbst IQ though? He’s never been considered for Ireland before, which rules out qualifying through his parents, and he was signed around the same time as Ludik, so he hasn’t yet qualified through residency. You are not allowed two project players at once. I was not saying that the decision not to renew Pienaar’s contract was due to quotas, but merely that the number of NIQ’s at Ulster may have factored into the whole “succession planning” thing, given how murky the rules that govern how the whole “selection planning” works seem murky and unclear.
Sorry for making that last sentence confusing.
Superb opening sentence though
I know this has happened to other provinces (when Hines was pushed out at Leinster it really annoyed me) but I feel there should be an exception made in Pinear’s case. The guy is brilliant, has made Belfast his home and has indicated he wants to get involved in the coaching side of thigs at Ulster. I understand the IRFU arguments but Pinear is such a key figure for Ulster, has such vast experience that I do believe the IRFU should have a rethink. There are times when we need ‘foreign’ talent to bolster squads but this decision will make it more difficult to attract that talent in the future.
Would love to see Pienarr in Munster.
We constantly complain about the budgets of English and French clubs and our inability to attract big players. Is it any surprise. Teo let go. Stephen Moore not allowed sign. Pienaar now dumped!
Teo wasn’t let go ! He had an unbelievable offer from Worcester and that included getting into the England Squad straight away where he qualifies through his mother .. It’s like saying Connacht let Henshaw go ..
Ulster will be able to redirect Pienaar’s into the contract of a new scrum half . Conor Murray to Ulster ?
Redirect Pienaar’s salary
Don’ t think we are allowed to go for a NIQ scrum half.