JOHN MCENROE BELIEVES that 23-time Grand Slam title winner Serena Williams would struggle to break the top 700 on the men’s tour. McEnroe, speaking on National Public Radio (NPR) in the US to promote his new book, But Seriously, says that while Williams in the “best female player ever, no question,” the 35-year old would struggle to compete with the opposite sex. “If she played the men’s circuit she’d be like 700 in the world,” he said before continuing.
That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player. I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower.
“And on a given day, Serena could beat some players. I believe because she’s so incredibly strong mentally that she could overcome some situations where players would choke ’cause she’s been in it so many times, so many situations at Wimbledon, The US Open, etc. “But if she had to just play the circuit — the men’s circuit — that would be an entirely different story.
Maybe at some point a women’s tennis player can be better than anybody. I just haven’t seen it in any other sport, and I haven’t seen it in tennis. I suppose anything’s possible at some stage.”
Earlier this year, Williams won her record-breaking 23rd Grand Slam title when she claimed the Australian Open while pregnant. McEnroe won seven Grand Slam events in his career. None while pregnant.
Great ending to the article. Tip of the cap Sir!
Yeah, virtue signalling is cool
@Shane Cusack: nah, it’s a cringeworthy and bitchy “you go girl” type of comment, devoid of any logic or sense. Pretty typical of today’s millennial males.
@P C: take a chill pill PC, don’t let the bitterness of women getting to do stuff in the world too get you down too much.
@P C: I know should be paid hourly rate, Williams winning games few years ago at Wimbledon in half an hour, joke same money as men same rate or play the men
@Veronica: where did I say women should not play tennis? But let’s have fairness. A man who plays 5 sets usually should be paid more than a woman who plays 3 sets usually, and almost always of a higher standard.
@P C: Nothing to do with the amount of sets played. They’re in the entertainment business, and play for prize money. They don’t have an hourly rate. To be properly fair, whichever gender brings in more money via tickets sold etc., should have a greater slice of the pie.
@Flip off: the revenues generated by both sexes are similar so surely the prizes should be similar?
@James Kearney: Where did you get that from? I would be interested to see the source of that information. Viewership figures for male finals are higher than female finals, by multiples.
@P C: why was my original comment deleted? Was the word feminazis too much for the Journal snowflakes?
@P C: is it not only 4 or 5 events a year (the slams plus one other) where the men play best of 5 sets? The men and the women play best of 3 throughout the rest of the tour. Is the prize money for the rest of the tour equal for both or is it just the slams?
@P C: I doubt that assumption is true when very popular female players reach the final. I do remember viewing figures collapsed for the US Open a couple of years ago when the two female finalists were unknown to the general public, but I bet it would have been the same if the men’s final had been contested by unknown and unseeded male players
Probably true.
@Mr Wilde: “You can not be serious man” ;-)
They’re practically 2 different sports. The speed and power in the men’s game is multiple levels above the women’s. It’s not even really fair to compare the two.
@Brian: She’s about as close to a man as you can get. In fact she’s more of a man than a lot of men
@ocJBI3Df: Why? Because only men can be muscular?
@Ruth Corbally: Its fairly unusual for women to be as muscular as Serena Williams especially without taking steroids.
@ocJBI3Df:
She has more curves in the right places than any other woman on the female tour
@GunsGerms: yes it is and that’s why she is one of the best female athletes. She is an athelete after all. For tennis you need to be strong. Hence large defined muscles. As for the “without taking steroids” remark, I’m a naturally muscular woman and if I could be bothered to actually stick to a strict eating regime, lift weights and train I know I could build muscle up that would be fairly large and defined that could rival a lot of men! Sometimes it’s just genetic.
@Ruth Corbally: not true Steffi Graf wasn’t muscular and was a more accomplished tennis player than Williams
@Quentin Moriarty: lol she was muscular, but her build is completely different! She is naturally very slim and slight so obviously she isn’t going to look big! As I said above genetics have a lot to do with it. Plus tennis was different back when she was playing as was training. The lady lifts weights and pushes her body to some serious limits.
@ocJBI3Df: you’re some joke, you joke, you know? At least the rest of us are trying to construct a civilised conversation
Then throw her into the men’s game and let’s find out. What would be the problem with seeing if what McEnroe says is true?
@Karl Larkin: they kinda did. Both Williams sisters challenged a man Karsten Braasch in the Australian open to a match and they got humiliated. He was also aplegedly drunk and hungover at the time too.
@Shane Kinsella: A link to the story can be found here Mr Braasch was certainly an interesting fellow :P https://www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html
Is it sexist now to recognise men are better at sports than women?
@Cian: Define “better”. Stronger, sure, but better technically at a sport? I can name a few sports where men lack technique but make up using brute strength. Does that make them better or just stronger?
@Cian: Define “better”. Stronger, sure, but better technically at a sport? I can name a few sports where men lack technique but make up using brute strength. Does that make them better or just stronger?
@Veronica: Examples?
@Veronica:
Surely being better at a sport is all about the winning which requires a combination of technical skill, strength and mental strength. The best sports people are the ones that use these attributes to win.
@Veronica: so you’re saying the man used his specific attributes to overcome the specific attributes of his opponent? that makes him better in any language.
@Veronica: Makes them better. That’s sport.
@Nick Allen: When you have massive strength, the rest don’t really help you. No matter how skilled you are, if someone much stronger plays against you, chances are they’re going to win.
Being good at a sport means being able to play well technically, as well as being physically fit. Women just aren’t as strong as men. The idea that you can’t really compare them in terms of sports because they both play so different shouldn’t be all that hard to comprehend.
As an example, if I play a game of squash against a man of average fitness and strength, who isn’t as good at squash as me, I’ll likely win. If I play a game of squash against a man who has not that much technical knowledge of the game (and hasn’t really played it), but is ultra fit (runs marathons and does weightlifting), he’s likely going to beat me.
@Beachmaster: bouldering
@Veronica: who would win if they competed against eachother? it would usually be the man. obviously it doesnt apply to all sports, shooting would be one.
@Cian: Do you mean in games that are strength based? Yeah, men would more than likely win because of the strength advantage.
@Veronica:
By using that logic you are only attributing technical skill as the requirement to being best at a sport. Sport is more than technical skill as it required physical strength, speed, hand / eye coordination and mentality to win. The person who best uses these attributes and wins is the person that is best at the sport. If that means that a man beats a woman or vice versa because they are stronger then that means they are the best.
I am no where near as strong or as fit as Serena, If I play her at tennis and lose does that mean she won because she is stronger than me or would it be because she is a better tennis player than me?
@Nick Allen: This is really simple, what I mean is that, when both players are so skilled that the difference between them is negligible, and one is stronger than the other, than that’s why they will win. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re better, especially when it comes to a biological difference between females and males.
If Serena Williams played at your strength, she’d probably still beat the pants off you because she’s far more skilled at tennis than you (presumably anyway).
I’m not saying that men aren’t stronger than women, clearly they are, what I’m saying is that that doesn’t necessarily make them BETTER at those particular sports. I don’t know why that idea is upsetting so many people. I’m probably a lot better at squash than you, but you’re probably stronger than me or maybe we’re equally strong. Who do you think would win in a match between us?
@Veronica: Take snooker as an example. No real strength involved there, but no shortage of technical ability. Yet, men completely outshine women for some reason. Reanne Evans won 10 consecutive Ladies World Championship titles, an incredible achievement, and is probably the best female snooker player ever. She played on the main tour (i.e. against men) for one season and failed to win a single match.
Perhaps it’s partly down to society/history. It’s not that long ago, in historical terms, that women either weren’t allowed to play sports or were thought less of if they did so. Whatever the case may be, men are a lot better at most sports at the moment. That’s hard to deny.
@Veronica: @Veronica: To me it seems you all making the same argument. Clearly in any sport where strength, and thus potential power output in watts over the course of a match is a strong factor, such as in Tennis, then this is a decisive advantage between players of even remotely comparable technical skills.
As such in sports where specific power output really matters you would need to somehow equalise that factor in order to truly compare player skill. Since that’s just not possible then no true answer to the skill question is obtainable in terms of a side-by-side comparison. But we can say that in the case of any two technically comparable players the player with a s.p.o. advantage over their opponent has higher win probability in some ratio to that advantage. Making them better at that game, regardless of gender, if one measures by the only truly complete, if not entirely quantifiable, information – victories over time.
This is McEnroe’s point to my understanding and the science has his back on that.
@Veronica:
I completely understand the point you are making. However, I would have a slightly different interpretation. If a man and a woman are equal in all aspects of the sport other than physical strength and if this physical strength results in the man winning then then man is better than the woman at the aport. The reason being that physical strength is a key aspect to the sport.
I do agree that woman can be just as technically as skilled as men at a sport and can also be more technically skilled but technical ability is not the only attribute which contributes to be best at a sport. A prime example of this is snooker. Professionals with an average or poor winning rate at professional level are very players who can’t miss a ball when playing the game in their local club with ‘mental ability / bottle’ or whatever one wants to call it being the differentiating factor.
@Nigel Lane: The meta-environment has shown to be a huge factor here. In extreme brief: beyond a certain level you only truly improve by playing better opponents.
Which means you would have to integrated the player pool from a young age in order to see a true reflection. And so, as you say, the reasons for the lack of competitiveness here may well be historical. In sports that have traditionally not been segregated at the “junior” level we see very comparable results.
In fact, on the one occasion they mixed the Skeet Shooting event at the Olympics a Chinese lady thrashed everyone and set the highest score ever recorded, a standing world record. Then the men took their ball and wouldn’t let her play again, but they still can’t beat her score. It was so close to perfect there is an excellent chance no-one ever will.
So it’s more complicated than we can fully appreciate. But there is a drive to “de-segregate” the technique driven sports and if that continues we’ll have an answer in due course.
@Cian: they’re not ‘better’, just physically stronger. I might also point out that men’s sport gets more funding from sports associations run by, guess by whom?
@Fiona Brown: the fact they are stronger makes them better. Im sure the funding has something to do with the amount of money male sports generate compared to female.
@Veronica: just stronger. This kind of comparison is so pointless. Men and women are different physically. Doh
700 might be stretching it a bit but hasn’t she even admitted that the top 200 men’s players would hammer her in a match.
@Ciaran Rice: I remember when both were new on the tour they challenged a semi-retired male player who was just outside the Top 200 at the time. For the life of me I can’t remember who, the guy wasn’t exactly a giant of the men’s game, but he hammered them both in back-to-back sets nonetheless.
@John Considine: his name was Karsten Braasch.
@Shane Kinsella: Buuut… didn’t Billy Jean King beat some dude? Also Navratilova put up a good match against Jimmy Connors.
@Titus Groan: Yes Billie Jean King beat a guy but it is worth noting that he retired 22 years prior to that and was 55 at the time.
Why are people surprised to hear about this? People don’t readily know that the boys Irish under 18 athletics records smash the senior women’s records at all levels….smash them!!!
Men are stronger than women, simples.
@lousybush: Yeah, stronger, nobody’s gonna dispute that, but that’s not to say that men are BETTER at sports than women. They play totally different games. Men tend to rely on their strength, women tend to be more tactical.
@Veronica: when you are able to humiliate an opposing team, thats usually a good indicator that you are BETTER..
@Veronica: Sorry that is not true. Women use their strength over other players all the time. They don’t need to be tactical if they are similar strengths to their opponents. It is still the same game and the Williams sisters use their strength to win.
@Veronica: Where do you get the idea that women are more tactical? Do you think women’s football (soccer) is more tactical than men’s just because men are physically stronger? Look at the greatest players of all time, very few of them had brute strength on their side. Pele, Maradona, Messi, Xavi… All fairly short and diminutive, yet geniuses of the game. Maybe over the next few decades women’s sports will catch up, but currently they’re a long way behind and not because of a lack of physical strength.
McEnroe won 7 grand slams.
@Barry O’Brien:
He had to play the world’s top male players though often in marathon games lasting hours, not 30 minute run outs against his sister.
@Barry O’Brien: yeah, and on the men’s tour, a brilliant achievement, one of the all time greats.
@TehJurolan: You cannot be serious
@Tommy Browne: not denying that. the article was factually incorrect stating he won nine. Was just highlighting it.
Perhaps McEnroe wants to stage a comeback based on the publicity of a match between himself and Serena Williams.
I think she’d wipe the floor with him.
@Todd Hebert: He’s 58 and in the interview he was asked if she was the greatest player of all time, regardless of gender.
I’m female competitor. While there is the odd exception, Men are faster & Men are stronger. I dissagree with Veronica. I don’t think women are “more” tactical. Some men are tactical, and some women are tactical.
For me, it’s Serena’s will to will, her determination & sheer confidence that makes her amazing. Katie Taylor, Ronnie Delaney….who cares male / female? Spirit is what counts. Some women have it. Some men have it. That’s what I admire.
Now in all fairness how can you compare the women’s and the men’s game. The only time the men play more sets is the grand slams and that could be over in 3 sets. Men get paid more for the 3 setter tournaments go figure. Men get more screen play in sport so how are the women to compete. Brute force isn’t always exciting to watch that is why the women’s matches can be far more exciting to watch.
@Elizabeth Barry: id wager the men’s current top 20 players are far more technically gifted than anyone the women’s game has ever seen. Men’s tennis is much more competitive, much more exciting and viewing figures and sponsorship back that up.
@Ciaran Rice: oh, and women now get paid the same in some grand slam events as the men. Now that’s a farce.
Bit like mayweather mcgregor
Sure if it was up to the lads who comment on the Journal, we wouldn’t have any women in sports at all, would we? More airtime for the REAL athletes, men!
It’s even funnier because I would bet nearly everything I have that these guys are so bitter because they never reached the top of their game in anything, and like to believe that men are better than women at everything, so at least they haven’t failed utterly because they still aren’t as bad as women.
Get a life guys, and stop jerking each other off about how men are “much better at sports than women, but not because men are stronger than women, just because men are *better*” and go out to the pub for some real socialisation.
@Veronica: Just so you know some of hate watching sport and have no interest. It still doesn’t mean we can’t see what you are saying is not true.
@Veronica: so it is sexist to point out men are better at sport than women? Im a big fan of mma and i love the female fighters. I have just as much respect for them as i do their male counterparts. But if they went up against a man the same size and ranking, they would lose.
@Kal Ipers: If you hate watching sport, then all you’re judging it by is “who is the bigger, stronger, brute”. I watch a good bit of sports. Watching the women’s teams is a totally different game compared to the men’s. The women tend to be more tactical than the men, who are strong enough to just barge through.
It’s not a slight on either women or men, I’m just saying that it’s silly for all of you on here to go on about “better”, when women and men play what are almost completely different games, because of their physical differences.
@Veronica:” All of us here” is where your problems start. I haven’t said better once. To suggest the William sisters are tactical players is nonsense. They use their power and strength to beat players. That is how a person who doesn’t care about sport can call you on your BS. To suggest women are tactical players is an insult to both men and women players.
@Veronica: yeah Veronica, nobody has said anything like that. You’re reacting to this discussion with emotion, rather than reason and you’re getting up in arms about something that only exists in your imagination, instead of acknowledging a truth or reality you don’t like.
I’m beginning to think this clip from Harry Enfield – obviously a pisstake aimed at men of the past – is actually scarily closer to the truth about women than we’d all like to admit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
http://www.dailywire.com/news/17929/john-mcenroe-says-serena-williams-would-rank-700-amanda-prestigiacomo
Apparently he’s right
Worth noting that Mc Enroe is a long term advocate for equal pay for female players who win titles
And your point is???
Too much over thinking going on in comments. He’s stating what he believes not trying to be controversial. Men are stronger. This particular sport takes a lot of strength. Women’s overall muscle strength is very different to mens and most men of a certain fitness level against women would plant them. He’s got enough knowledge of the sport to know what he’s talking about. Why does every conversation like this turn into “women are just as good as men how dare you say we’re weaker” type of rubbish. I doubt she’d argue.
@A H: As a matter of fact, when Serena was asked 4 or 5 years ago how she’d get on against a decent ranked professional male she said “It’d be loads of fun, but i honestly doubt I’d score a single point”.
Great article to divide the sexes. Just another nob that has written it and more nobs that side with him. Thought that every person was equal at this stage. Women’s 3 setters can be as long or even longer than the men’s. The top men’s seeds don’t take long in finishing their slam matches which is normal. So just cut the crap out.
Baseball style double backhand returns should be banned in tennis
The true greats like Sampras, Mc Enroe ,Borg ,Lendl never restored to this mutation of the sport
That’s the most pointless thing ever. Who cares where she’d be on the men’s tour. She’s a fcuking girl ffs!
Kudus
Men are physically stronger than women and so obviously are going to always win when physical strength is important… i.e. Sports