IRELAND SCRUM COACH John Fogarty doesn’t hide his true feelings when asked to reflect on how the team fared at the setpiece on their July tour to South Africa.
“It wasn’t good enough in the summer,” Fogarty admits.
There is no tougher place to test your scrum mettle than South Africa, but the Ireland coaches weren’t happy with how things went against the back-to-back World Cup champions. As such, the setpiece was a huge area of focus for Ireland heading into the November internationals, where Fogarty feels Ireland’s players have delivered an improved return across defeat to New Zealand and last Friday’s win against Argentina.
It was very frustrating in the summer, it wasn’t good enough, we didn’t return enough as a team. Sometimes we can get in our own way, overthink things, sometimes making things simple.
“I think we had a good shape, we scrummage at a really good height at the moment, and that leads to us building weight. That’s important. We’ll always tidy up the pictures and images, we’re always trying to be more aware of what the referees are looking for. Its really important to have a good relationship, a two-way relationship between referees and coaches, particularly at scrum time, so that we can get into scrum contests.
“I think in the first game against New Zealand we got into some nice, good scrum contests. They’ve been alright. We want to create something for the crowd, we want to create something for the team as a scrum. There’s good buy-in. We’re in a good place and we need to get more out of the gains, perhaps.”
One of the key challenges is simply having the tools needed to make the scrum a point of difference.
Ireland have missed the skill and heft of Tadhg Furlong over the last two weeks and his absence has shone a light on Ireland’s stocks in the front row. With Furlong and Ulster’s Tom O’Toole both ruled out for the Pumas win, Leinster tighthead Thomas Clarkson made the jump from ‘training panellist’ to Test debutant, handling himself well in his 33 minutes on the pitch. Clarkson has played 47 times for Leinster but just once in the Champions Cup before winning his first Ireland cap.
On the loosehead side, 37-year-old Cian Healy remains second in line to Andrew Porter, who has put in 70+ minute shifts on eight occasions for club and country since the turn of 2024.
Asked about Ireland’s loosehead depth, Fogarty lists off the names.
Leinster’s Alex Usanov did “incredibly well” on this year’s Emerging Ireland tour. Connacht’s Jordan Duggan was brought on the same tour as the coaches wanted to give him “a nudge.” “Sometimes players, maybe they don’t believe they can make the step, maybe they don’t believe they’re on coaches’ mind.” Fogarty says.
“We’re not a huge country, we’re looking at every single loosehead that’s playing competitive rugby in the provinces.”
Leinster’s Jack Boyle is someone “that we’re excited about, he’s someone Leinster are excited about.” Paddy McCarthy falls into the same bracket and Michael Milne is “competing hard.”
There are exciting young prospects pushing through but one of the biggest challenges is exposure.
“There’s a good stock of players there, we need them playing rugby,” Fogarty continues.
“There’s lots of ‘A’ games on at the moment in the provinces which is great, and the AIL is there. The AIL is great for front five. It’s difficult, there’s some big, grizzly old players in the AIL, so AIL, ‘A’ games, into the provincial games, there’s opportunities to play.
I’m watching all the ‘A’ stuff at the moment, Leinster played Connacht and they beat the shit out of each other. It was great.
“So we need to create more opportunities for them through the provinces, nationally we need to create more opportunities, so we’ll see how we go over the next few months. The stock is there and we’ve confidence in it. We want to find game time and we want them to step up.”
The search for fresh talent is always ongoing in the background. Fogarty explained the IRFU have recently hired somebody dedicated to monitoring front row players at grass roots level.
“In the NTS [National Talent Squad], we’ve employed someone who’s going to work directly with front row players through our NTS programme.
“We’ve looked at below U20s, so 17s, 18s, 19s, a technical coach that will make his way around the country to identify players to assist him. It’s difficult for schools players because they’re limited in what they can do for safety reasons. There’s good reasons around that but we can stress them in different ways in the provinces.
“I think that position is going to be a really good one for us to get our U20s guys ready. Sometimes U20s guys come into competition and they’re learning in competition. We want them to compete in competition, so it’s an important role for the IRFU in that NTS space with 17s, 18s, 19s, leading up to your U20s coach and I’ll be there from U20s onwards in and around the academies and we’ve got some good coaches around the country.
“So we’re very aware of it and we’re putting pieces in place.”
What about Scott Wilson – a fabulous young prop who has played a number of games for Ulster both last season and this – including the URC and in Europe. Not too mention the recent Emerging Ireland tour. Good scrumager and good in the loose with ball in hand.
@Keno: ye I agree. I’m surprised he’s not being given a chance. Last year was on fire this year something maybe had happened? Who knows ….
This is a quote from an article with SA prop Nché:
“The first scrum you’re going to look each other in the eyes, it’s all confidence, it’s mano a mano and then when you get to the fourth scrum, if you’ve done your job, he’s no longer looking at me in the eyes, he’s having a doubt,” he says. “It’s where we try to get to as soon as possible. You see the other team, their forward pack, they don’t feel that confident in what they do any more, it gives me great pleasure. To know that if they are starting to give up as a pack, it just gives us an extra mental boost.”
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2024/nov/13/salads-dont-win-scrums-ox-nche-is-icing-on-springboks-front-row-cake
Not too sure what he means by ‘we can test them differently in the provinces’ – if that means they can get them scrummaging outside the confines of schools’ rugby limits (1.5m push) then that can only be a good thing going forward. Our age-grade prop stock is more often than not a backrower who can scrummage rather than a competitively sized specialist. ‘Salads don’t win scrums’.
Without knowing much details of how this will work, im greatly encouraged to see an initiative that aims to improve the quality and quantity of young props coming into the provincial and national set up. U can’t win the world cup without prop depth. It’s unrealistic to expect us to be producing props like SA or France but having a back up prop who will guarantee ur scrum and not bleed u penalties could be enough to get u over the line in a quarter final, semi final or even the final
Paddy mccarthney and boyal look like the fucture
@Shawn: boyle
Nice article, but a bit tricky to distinguish the true insight from the spin. In particular the standard in the AIL. Here he is repeating the comforting received wisdom that there are a load of grizzled veterans who are a great test for the emerging young props. Yet, a couple of weeks ago the line emerging from Munster sources was that they’d looked at a load of AIL LHs but playing them in the URC was unsafe.
Also, while I assume the content here is limited to the questions he was asked, it would have been interesting to hear his views on the apparently chronic rate of injuries amongst Irish props – obviously worst at Munster, but not limited to their players
@Kevin Ryan: Munster wanted special dispensation, as usual, to sign a foreign prop for the long term. It wouldn’t exactly support that position of they acknowledged there were Irish props who could do a job for them in the short term.
@teuO6nLS: Munster have asked for years to sign a international quality prop or hooker but the IRFU has denied them, then Leinster sign another foreign prop, as usual, and the IRFU then put in a ban on any province signing foreign front row players. Munster then asked to sign a medical joker to cover loosehead due to an unprecedented injury crisis and again were told no by the IRFU.
@teuO6nLS: factually incorrect again. they wanted an experienced prop for a three month medical joker and were offered a prop from the leinster academy. munster stated they already have academy props but academy props are not ready for the rough and tumble of URC and ERC rugby. munster were trying to enforce some semblance of health and safety and player welfare, the IRFU were happy to throw these guys to the slaughter. only have to look at josh whycherly. hes only 24 yet has 79 caps for munster, majority of which he was still developing physically. he is now out for 4 months after neck surgery. no surprise there.
@Niall English: Everything is under control. Archer, Ryan, Warwick and Buckley can keep playing until they’re 45 whilst we wait for the new breed of international standard Irish props to appear.
@Kevin Ryan: Munster have made a habit of signing injury prone players across the park but front 5 is where they’ve borne the Brunt . Salanoa (where is he?), De Jager, Kilcoyn (homegrown not signed), Kleyn, Snymann, Edogbo,, Ahern, thé hookers all long term absentees, still or last couple of seasons Thank god for Archer still being around – the most robust of the lot.
I posted here very recently that it was incredible the amount of fine youth props togging out every weekend in every club in the country. I posed the question as to why none of them get the chance to aspire to play for their country. I know, Furlong is the exception. The pertinent question now is why it took so long for the IRFU to address this issue.
@Tom Reilly: IRFU dont do long term.
Who have they employed for National Training Squad (NTS) for Front-row development?
This is a vital role and it needs to be somebody top class. He doesn’t need a reputation if he knows what he’s about. The Rep will come quickly, if he’s good
What about Peter Dooley.
He’s, playing great rugby with Connacht
@Martin Dooley: No relation…?