It’s been some time since the FA Cup third round felt quite as magic as the media often make out. Indeed, the ennui really goes back to the mid-90s. There are no complex reasons for that: basically, the Premier League and Champions League have become such all-consuming monsters that the FA Cup basically feels like an unwanted interruption. And that will likely be reflected in some of the line-ups today.
By contrast, the Carling Cup – previously so dismissed – appears to have increased in attraction over the past few years. Part of that is undoubtedly the fact that it quietly goes about its own business midweek only for the excitement of the latter stages to gradually accumulate.
With that in mind, would the FA Cup be better served if it became a midweek competition? Would it be easier for teams to get up for? Would it have a greater sense of occasion?
If anything, having the fa cup on midweek would devalue the tournament..not only would it create fixture congestion with teams playing games saturday/sunday & then tuesday/wednesday, also what do you do when the champions league/europa league returns? The fa cup is all about the minnows having a go against the biggest teams in England & the biggest teams being taken out of there comfort zone or the minnows living the dream
Having it midweek would also damage attendence at games..so many flaws with the idea..an awful suggestion
But Drama, that view just ignores the current realities of the competition. Third-round attendances have been atrocious for years now… often among the worst day of teams’ seasons. Today, both Birmingham and Wolves – two teams you would imagine would get benefit out of long runs in the competition – have made 12 changes between. All of what you say has already come to pass. So, in that sense, the Cup needs something. The old FA Cup Saturdays are no longer working. As we say, if it was midweek there might be a greater sense of occasion. Also, it wouldn’t necessarily create fixture congestion since having the games midweek would free up a number of Saturdays in the season.
Give the winners a place in The Champions’ League. Problem solved.
Not for me. As I’ve said elsewhere here, I’d rather the FA Cup devalued than the Champions League.
It wouldn’t devalue the CL. It would sharpen up the ideas of the ‘top’ teams, and, by extension, increase the ‘magic’ of the FA Cup, whereby giant-killings would indeed be giant-killings, as opposed to a team of seasoned professionals beating Manchester United’s (insert any PL side here) youth team.
If you look at Millwalls path to the 03/04 cup final, they played 1 premier league team, sunderland in the semi final. They were outclassed by Man United in final. Trust me if there was a champions place at stake you wouldnt have Arsenal resting 8 first team players at home in an fa cup quater final to Bristol City for example
You keep making reference to the growing interest in the league cup, Arsenal played a reserve team against Man City this year & do so every year, Man United do the exact same,Liverpool would do the same if they had champions league football or even europa league & man citys reserve squad is so strong that you cant even call it a weakened team as such..so where is the growing interest from managers?
This years semi finals has 2 championship teams & liverpool/city & the as stated above liverpool have no european football & are desperate for any trophy & citys team is so strong they expect to be in for every trophy no matter what team they play..they consider nasri,johnson,de jong as 2nd choice players
Compare the excitement around the Carling Cup’s latter stages to the FA Cups though. Even compare the Carling Cup Manchester derby in 2010 to the FA Cup derby in 2011. Wildly different, and mostly because the FA Cup came at “inopportune” times of the season.
As regards the Champions League idea, no way. I would rather the FA Cup devalued than the European Cup.
Yes. It’s almost as meaningless as the league cup nowadays, just another opportunity for injuries to important players. And worse its itv & espn so no MOTD or Sky on a Sunday. Keep weekends for the league.
The game should be decided on the day (either weekend or midweek). It would at least add a bit more excitement to the competition rather than an unnecessary replay.
For premier league teams, especially the ones who are at the lower end of the league table, the fa cup will always play 2nd fiddle, your example of wolves/birmingham is a good example of this..for wolves there goal is to reman premier league status while birmingham’s main goal is championship playoffs..the financial implications of relegation/promotion these days is the reason for the downfall of the fa cup
I dont know what the prize money for the fa cup is but its not a lot & would t provide any financial security of clubs..it wouldnt make any difference having the games midweek..managers would still make the same changed to there first 11
If you want to improve the fa cup, give the winner of the tournament a champions league place & reduce league qualification to 3..then watch how important the fa comes on a managers agenda
Again though, Drama, midweek games might at least create a sense of occasion in the way we’ve seen with the Carling Cup since 2007 (when the big teams have suddenly taken it much more seriously). As regards giving the FA Cup place a Champions League spot, I wouldn’t agree with that at all, as I outline in the comment above.
What excitement is there around crystal palace playing cardiff in the semi finals this week? The united/city semi final games had interest as city were emerging with all there new money & signings & you had Tevez going back to old trafford..that could have been a pre season game & it would have interest
They should rename in the champions league because how can you have a trophy-less team who finished 4th in a league,30 points behind the champions playing in a tournament called the “champions league” when there not champions at all..it would give so much meaning to the fa cup if this was implemented
Also its nice to have a football discussion on the journal rather than the doom & gloom of job losses & economic woes
Ha!
Well, the Champions League is clearly a misnomer. But, although I loved the old European Cup, we should possibly get beyond it at this stage. In the Copa Libertadores, for example, they’ve never been hung up on having champions. It’s simply been the best of the best. Which is what the Champions League now is. For example, you’re likelier to have a current season’s league leaders in it now than you did in the past.
Ironically, the “European Cup” would be a more appropriate name now than ever.
I think what the tournament needs is The big teams need an incentive to take it seriously. Prize money wouldn’t be great when compared to finishing 4th in prem league and that’s part of the problem. Perhaps if 4th spot got an automatic place in Europa league group stages ahead of 5th place? That way the most of the premier league teams would be going gung ho for it
I’d disagree with that I have to say Niall. It would devalue the Champions League. That competition should be about the very best in Europe (without getting into old debates about champions only). And, while the league generally sorts teams accurately in terms of quality, the Cup doesn’t. In 2004-05, for example, it would have seen Millwall in the Champions League.
But those teams competing in the fa cup that year didn’t have the prize of playing champions league football! Perhaps a compromise than a play off game between the winners and 4th spot to determine who goes through to uefa champions league? That way the fa cup has an incentive to win and there’s a safeguard against a mill wall situation happening.
Bh the way I think the fa cup has increased in importance for the likes of arsenal Liverpool spurs etc as its seen as a realistic opportunity to win silverware
In fairness though Miguel, you already have the likes of Otelul Gelati and Trabzonspor in the champions league. The average fa cup finalist would be at least equal to those teams.
Besides any team coming in via the fa cup would have to get through the qualifying rounds.
The group stages of the champions league are generally poor with the exception of the man city,bayern munich,napoli & villareal group this season..a team like city wont be 3rd seeds ever again though so that was a once off..the tournament only gets going in the knockout stages
Anyway with regards to the fa cup,my closing arguement would be that it doesnt matter what day of the week the games are played,its still going to come 2nd on the priorty list to league & champions league games for managers..it will only gain interest from clubs by giving more incentive to it,some would agree with my suggestion & some wont..its a matter of opinion..but this is what being a football fan is all about, debates & discussions like this
Indeed. Well, to counter the Champions League point, I would argue that the impending Financial Fair Play rules (although they are far from perfect) – and the adjustments they’re forcing teams to make – has made the last few group stages much more interesting. The nadir was 2007-08, which was the latest in a number of years where all the top seeds got through. Since then, there has been a rising unpredictability, as illustrated by APOEL going through. Long may it continue.
But aren’t you contradicting yourself a bit there Miguel? You want the Champions League to be “the best of the best” and wouldn’t want to see the likes of Millwall in it, then you say that the competition’s nadir was 07/08 because all the best teams progressed to the knockouts, while this year is exciting because Apoel got through.
I don’t think having Millwall in the qualifying rounds is any more farcical than Apoel in the last 16.
Ah. You see I don’t want to see the best teams from each country. I just want to see the best teams. I suppose that’s the subtle difference between an egalitarian pan-European ideal, and an elitist super league.
But sorry for dragging us off topic. I think we could compromise on the FA Cup/Champions League qualification. What about offering a CL place for the winners only? As in, beaten finalists would never qualify. If the winners qualify by virtue of their league position, the last spot goes to the fourth placed team in the league.
That would create another incentive to win the competition, but realistically you wouldn’t see too many minnows getting to the Champions League.
Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Everton. That’s the list of teams that have won the last 20 FA Cups and I don’t think any of them would devalue the Champions League.
I’d be in favour of moving it to midweek as well though.
That’s quite telling isn’t it? The FA Cup can’t even get top priority in it’s own thread!
Although I’m arguing for incentives to win the fa cup surely it’s the death kneel for the cup when the cup itself isn’t prize enough?
No No No No. To much football in the week as it is, in fact I would support a ban on the teams of witless fools chasing soccer balls from TV all together.
If that’s the case, why would you bother commenting on a poll featuring people talking about “soccer balls”. Not much wit in that.
what as this got to do with anyone in Ireland, surely u should be promoting your own league and own cup without worrying about the English FA cup.
Is there any League of Ireland football on today?? No. As someone who is at a League of Ireland game every single Friday, I – like many Irish sports fans – don’t find myself constrained by mere geography in my enjoyment of football.
They should abandon Replays in the FA Cup before moving to midweek games. One thing that adds to the excitement of the Carling Cup is extra time and penalties after a draw just like Man United vs Palace. It’s unlikely United would have lost that game over a Replay.
Teams should at least get the chance to mutually agree if a game goes to ET or a replay. I can’t imagine players, managers or fans at Blackburn vs Newcastle today would want a replay
They should abandon Replays in the FA Cup before moving to midweek games. One thing that adds to the excitement of the Carling Cup is extra time and penalties after a draw just like Man United vs Palace. It’s unlikely United would have lost that game over a Replay.
Teams should at least get the chance to mutually agree if a game goes to ET or a replay.