WHETHER OR NOT you agreed with the now-infamous League of Ireland-related comments that Roddy Collins attributed to Luton manager John Still, there was no doubt they caused a stir.
Still accompanied Collins to last year’s FAI Cup final between Derry and St Pat’s, and according to the former Bohs and Shamrock Rovers boss, left the game decidedly unimpressed with the standard of football on show.
The provocative implication from Still was that League of Ireland footballers are below League Two standard — a claim that prompted widespread derision in the Irish footballing community.
Yet while there is plenty of evidence to suggest many League of Ireland players have the capabilities to cope with standards far higher than League Two, Still’s comments perhaps reflected a wider sense of scepticism when it comes to the perception of Irish players’ abilities across the water.
Someone better placed than most to comment on these issues is John O’Sullivan, who has considerable experience on the administrative side of the League of Ireland. O’Sullivan served as Chairman of Cork City from 2010-2011, and subsequently worked as CEO of Athlone Town FC for the 2012 season and of Limerick FC from January 2013 to July 2014.
O’Sullivan feels the Collins debate has been blown out of proportion and is adamant that many League of Ireland players’ potential reaches far greater than League Two.
“I think the point Roddy Collins was trying to make was that if it was based on that one game — the FAI Cup final, where players were a little nervy — they wouldn’t get a shot in Luton Town. But realistically, there are a number of players in the League of Ireland who are well above League Two level.
“I’d imagine Richie Towell this time next year will probably be playing with a Championship club. I think the fact that he’s turning 23 this year means clubs will have to pay less compensation [if they wait to buy him]. English club sides don’t want to take a chance — they want to buy players without compensation. So there are numerous players in the League of Ireland that would be Championship standard.
“You even look at Dylan Connolly from Shels who has gone straight into Ipswich’s matchday squad. Alan Browne at Preston was a Cork City U19 player. He went across there and has been effectively playing week in week out.
“Even going back to players like David Meyler, Shane Long, Kevin Doyle — loads of them have gone across to Championship level and maintained their good form. So there’s no doubt that the better players in the league are better than League Two standard in the UK.”
(Last year’s FAI Cup final drew criticism in some circles)
Extratime.ie reporter, Shamrock Rovers fan and co-author of Tallaght Time, Macdara Ferris, also believes domestic-based players are often underestimated.
“Players such as Brian Lenihan have gone straight into the Ireland squad. And the Ireland squad is littered with players who come out of League of Ireland. If you can develop players within your own club structure, you get a couple of seasons out of them, you enjoy these guys and fans are talking to friends and work colleagues and they go ‘jeez we’ve got this full-back,’ or ‘we’ve got this striker’ and this guy really does it.
“If you get them in, hopefully your team might win a trophy. If they’re below 23 when they go over, the clubs can garner a fair bit of cash out of it. The minimum the clubs should be looking for is six-figure sums. So Michael Duffy, when he moved over to Celtic, that seems to be the figure that Derry City got.
“I think League of Ireland fans are quite happy to see players move on. They really do wish them well. You see it with Cork City fans and Derry and Shamrock Rovers. Fans have a lot of pride in players who have gone on to do well.”
In fact, Ferris even suggests an early education in the League of Ireland can be more beneficial than starting off with an English club.
“Players going over at 15 or 16 are very young. Some of them make it, very few actually do. And a lot of time, those players are lost to the league. It’s good if we can pick them up, but the positive is clubs developing their players.
“The U19 league is also a positive. As of this year, there’ll be an U17 league, so that’s another positive.”
Yet one reason why British clubs are often reluctant to take on League of Ireland players is that it’s often very difficult to tell whether they have the attributes to make the step up in quality.
Eoin Doyle is one example of a player who did not necessarily seemed destined for better things to come, but he has thrived this season in particular, proving his doubters wrong in the process.
“I think if you asked Sligo Rovers fans and Shamrock Rovers fans, where Eoin Doyle started his career — he did well for both clubs — but they’d be surprised at how well he’s done,” Ferris says. “Sometimes with players, you really don’t see the potential. They go to England and go to a really full-time professional set-up — there are very few clubs you could say that about in the League of Ireland. Some players really thrive in that environment where they’re able to dedicate everything to football.”
(Dylan Connolly scoring for Shels last year)
While the league has endured some difficult times of late, it has continued to produce players of promise who have been sought out by English clubs, most recently Ryan Manning.
One issue already discussed in this series, largely in a positive light, is fan ownership. Having been a founder member of FORAS, who took Cork City FC into supporter ownership in 2010, O’Sullivan has an inside view on this matter.
“From my own time with Cork City, I think fan ownership is probably the ideal model,” he says. “But what’s more important is that you have good and responsible ownership. I think there is a tendency where you look at fan ownership and think that’s a catch-all that solves everything.
“But when people talk about fan ownership, what they’re really talking about is getting the people who care most about the club involved with the club. I think that’s probably where some chairmen down through the years have fallen down. They haven’t really found a way to engage and involve supporters.
“Cork, Shamrock Rovers, Sligo… They’re all supporter-owned clubs, and they’re probably three of the most successful clubs off-the-field particularly over the last number of years in terms of growing attendances, growing community, or attracting bigger attendances from now on.
“Obviously, success off the field has a huge part to play, but fan ownership isn’t a magic bullet. League of Ireland clubs are small and the more people you can get involved to take small jobs and to contribute ideas and work, the better.”
Another area where the League of Ireland can be helped is the media, and O’Sullivan believes there are plenty of positives in this regard.
“There are a lot of journalists who focus almost exclusively on the League of Ireland and do a very good job on it. I was at a function last year for heartofthegame.ie where [sports journalist] Owen Cowzer spoke about how fans interacting with journalists on Twitter is actually helping to drive extra coverage of the League of Ireland.
“League of Ireland fans tend to be quite vocal, doing deeds for their clubs and doing deeds and engaging with journalists who write on the clubs. That actually shows people who run the media organisations that there’s a market there for it.”
Ferris agrees that the coverage the league has received of late is encouraging, but suggests small improvements can still be made.
“Having live games is important, but what’s probably more important is to have a highlights programme, which is shunted out quite late. But those that are interested in the League of Ireland will record it or watch it on the RTÉ Player. But you’re not going to pick up the floating vote with a television slot at 11 o’clock.
“What they’ve also found is that 7.05 kick-offs [for live games on TV] have taken away from the gates significantly. Most clubs would take a 7.45 fixture. It won’t do too much to the gate. They’re able to say to their main shirt sponsor, last year we had five or six league games — they say if you come and sponsor us, we’ve a prime-time Friday night market. So it’s a balancing act for them. They certainly want the live games, but they also want to make sure that they’re not losing out on the gate. It might be a one-off, but the first game of the season — Rovers v Pat’s — is a 7.45 kick-off.”
(Live coverage of games is not without drawbacks, according to Ferris)
And of course, success on the field, particularly in Europe, will be vital in driving on this coverage.
“For Shamock Rovers, 2011 was a really good year. If you can do well in Europe, it generates a buzz. It also makes players better — playing against different styles of football. And then when they’re successful, it does generate that good news story.”
Yet even more so than results on the field, O’Sullivan believes that at an administrative level, a more collaborative effort will reap dividends for Irish sides.
“The biggest individual problem, if you had to boil it down to one, is that there isn’t enough communication between the clubs themselves and the clubs as a group with the FAI,” he says.
“I think we all know that the FAI have their own issues in terms of money. The clubs certainly have their own issues. But if you’re not talking to each other, you’re not going to be able to come up with solutions for that.
“There are some brilliant people working in Abbotstown now, don’t get me wrong. The clubs do get one-on-one support. But in terms of dealing with challenges that impact on the league as a whole rather than challenges that might affect the individual club, there aren’t enough forums where things can be discussed collectively with the FAI. A lot of that crops up year on year. If you had proper communication, you could put problems to bed fairly quickly.”
Thus concludes our series looking at the challenges facing League of Ireland clubs ahead of the new seasons. To read parts 1 and 2 of the series, click on the links below.
When leo is acknowledging that Rob is not a good tackler the Leinster fans who see no wrong with rob are going to have to change their tune. It’s been a flaw of his for a long time and plenty of clips back it up.
@Bungee Aky: https://youtu.be/guecs1gwzC4
@Bungee Aky: where did Leo say that?
@John Molloy: he didnt. Its just Bungee spoofing again
@Ger: he didn’t outright say it, he defended robs poor defensive performance by saying he shouldn’t be in a position here he has to make a last line of defense tackle. He is hardly going to acknowledge the biggest weakness of one of his most senior players
@Bungee Aky: And you got from that that Leo thinks he is a poor tackler… Absolute rubbish
@Luke walkee: not I got it first from watching him miss most one on one tackles over the years. Then Leo deflected the question about his defense by questioning why we were put in that position.
@Bungee Aky: go to 3:40 on this for a really special effort. https://youtu.be/K2jh7__LAto
@Bungee Aky: I think he was talking about Kearney having to make a tackle in 40 metres of space on his own at one stage of the game.
@EK: so
@Bungee Aky: his brutal effort for teddy tomas… https://youtu.be/QHfKmfeTR0w
He shouldn’t start vs England. His performances don’t warrant a starting place and it sends out a bad message to players performing well who are passed over.
@OFFSZN: I don’t agree, because I don’t see who is ahead of him and available.
@OFFSZN: he’s come in from lengthy layoffs before and played brilliantly. Don’t see why it would be any different this time. England at Landsowne, he’ll be pushing hard to be ready you’d imagine
@OFFSZN: his performances, leadership and organisation for Ireland over the last year or two warrant him being selected. How he plays during the 6N will be interesting though. Granted, Ireland don’t concede many line breaks in the manner Leinster did, which helps his case, but if he has a slip up or two like he did against Scarletts then we might see Larmour/Conway/Addison starting in the WC. I’d personally like to see Conway. One thing was apparent, he’s lost his agility. He looked stuck in the mud against Scarletts. Maybe I’m wrong, but he’d be made bits of in a one on one against NZ or SA.
I’m a big fan of kearney, think what he brings to the Irish team is the same as what Girvan did, solidity and dependability. Ireland has plenty of free scoring wingers to choose from in stockdale, earls, Conway and larmour and having a fullback who Marshalls the defense is very important however I’d have my doubts about picking kearney on Saturday. He played last weekend because he needed to find fitness and form and he had a stinker, probably the worst game I’ve ever seen from him. I don’t think it’s the wisest thing to start him this weekend when there are question marks over him. It’d be better to give him the extra week and let conway or larmour have the 15 shirt. I wouldn’t back him this weekend because if it goes badly then it could be a big set back for him and Ireland.
@Jim Demps: Kearney as a last man defender in open field after a line break was never really something he’s was good at. As Cullen said allowing him get put in that position was also an issue. The Irish defence never really puts him in that position so for Ireland it’s not that big a deal. If the English plan is create a clean line break and then take on Kearney well good luck with that.
What he does bring is that he marshals the back 3 like no one else we have.
His form is not great but he has been here before and never let us down.
@Chris Mc: he’s lucky our defense is so organised, aided by him of course. Scary thought him getting caught one on one in the WC. I’d like to see someone else getting a shot and add a bit of experience to their bow.
@Jim Demps: it’s his game reading ability and how good he is at covering space with a 13 man defensive line that’s most important to Ireland.
@Chris Mc: he looked like a guy who was struggling with fitness and was trying too hard. I’d prefer to see him sit out this weekend and come back ready rather than him having a bad game and have everyone getting on his back afterwards.
@Chris Mc: I don’t understand why people are making such a big deal about this now, his last man one-on-one tackling has always been a weakness in his game, even at his prime. He doesn’t get exposed to that situation too often, particularly as most teams try to break us out wide. But there are numerous examples over the years of him getting burned just like against Scarlets.
@Jim Demps: I think that if he is dropped for this weekend and Ireland do win, then it is hard to see him being recalled for the next game – or indeed the rest of the 6 Nations unless his replacement is shown to be a weakness in the team. And then if Ireland don’t need him in the 6N his international career may be over as he can’t play multiple positions so, unless he is the number 1 full back he is unlikely to be picked for the RWC
@Kevin Ryan: it’s not thunderdome, we have the strength and quality in depth to allow a guy come back to peak fitness.
@Johnny 5: it’s always been a problem, he organizes the line so well that it’s not something that happens to him often, I don’t care what 15/23 joe picks this weekend those players will go out and give 100% for Ireland either way joe knows more than I do re the squad.
I think he plays this weekend and the rest is up to him
Perform and stay in the team
Fullback is the biggest depth issue for Ireland ahead of the world with an ageing Kearney, the departure of Zebo and Larmour looking vulnerable under the high ball all leaving things looking far from rosy. We could do much worse than using this six nations to give time in the position to Conway or Addison.
@Rochelle: you forgot to mention Tom Kiernan!
@Rochelle: larmour is not suspect under the high ball. He had one game where he missed a couple. In the same game both Earls and Stockdale both dropped or misread kicks but yet it’s only larmour who got singled out.
If Sexton or Murray had a stinker last weekend would there be calls for them to be dropped? Not a chance. Kearney is up there with them in terms of his importance. He’s crucial to how Ireland defend, and how we set up our attack from opposition kicks. He’s Ireland’s most decorated player of all time for a reason.
@Conor Matthews: no he’s not, don’t be stupid. The only players we have that are not replaceable with similiar quality are Furlong, Murray and Sexton, probably stockdale, POM and CJ as well. Their places are never so far anyway, under threat by the person below them.
@Bungee Aky: yeah sure thing..
45 games for club and country now without a try. Pretty shocking statistic
@PScald: of course, all that’s going to Happen now is a hat trick against England
Hope Eddie Jones is as fooled as the rest of ye that that was the real RK? Do u seriously think that Joe wanted his 1st choice world class fb risking injury tackling meanlingness Pro14?
@Ger Eckermann: if you think joe ever sent a player on the pitch and told him not to tackle just Incase he get hurt you know nothing about our coach.
@Ger Eckermann: so the negation always team coach dictates the performance of club players in club games now. Good to know.
@Chris Mc: why do you think Cullen is so confident so – he knows the remit. Kearney was sent out there to prove his fitness not get injured and Joe relies on him completely for big matches so would have told him not to take any unnecessary risks.
@Bungee Aky: since the IRFU pay all the players especially those on a CC they can dictate anything they want. We are the envy of the world for our player management and players like Kearney are way too valuable to be risked in meanlingness Pro14 except in terms of proving fitness.
@Ger Eckermann: so then he didn’t prove his fitness….
Kearney should have been dropped by Ireland three-plus years ago too old, too slow, complete lack of regard for defence thee days. he had one good game in Chicago against the Kiwis, and has been a liability every since. Its good to hear that schmidt is trying Henshaw at 15 in Portugal and hopefully that occurs against England this Saturday too