MUNSTER WILL AIM to bounce back from defeat to Castres tonight with a big performance in Belfast.
Johann van Graan’s side take on Ulster at Kingspan Stadium in their first interprovicial clash of the Christmas period.
The province’s newly recruited No 10, Joey Carbery performed poorly in France last weekend, particularly with his kicking.
On this week’s Heineken Rugby Weekly, Andy Dunne insists however that Munster need to let the Irish international play his own game if they want to see the best of Carbery and not put a ‘square peg in a round hole’…
Murray Kinsella, Gavan Casey and Andy Dunne preview another big weekend of rugby action and dissect the week’s main talking points.
Heineken Rugby Weekly on The42 / SoundCloud
He’s been a fabulous signing even if he hasn’t been top class yet this season. He’s a guy that we can build a team around and at 23 he’s the whole world ahead of him. Sexton wouldn’t even have won his first cap for another 18 months at his age. Carbery has a lot of learning to do but he’s got a serious team of young players around him and the best 9 in the world to guide him and on top of that he’s getting actual game time in big games. Byrne looks great playing against poor teams and getting 10 minute cameos at the end of games but carbery is getting proper experience. The game last weekend will stand to him more than if he had been brilliant and won it.
@Jim Demps: Really? So Exeter, Montpellier (twice), Scarlets, Ulster, Munster (three times), Northampton, Castres are poor teams?
Interesting.
Cos they’re all games Byrne started, played well in and Leinster won.
@Jim Demps: i agree Jim, Byrne looked fantastic when he replaced Carbery in the USA game and the backline started immediately operating far more smoothly.
@Oval Digest: plus Joey could have been picked to play 10 in most of those games, but the coaches who see both train and perform day in day out chose the lad that is average
@William Finnegan: True, Byrne is a serious talent and maturing well.
There’s a bit of talk that Byrne suits Munster’s style of play more. I actually think he suits Leinster’s style of play more than Carbery. If you closely watch how Leinster play, it’s very structured and the vast majority of the attacking moves come direct from 10. That’s a legacy of having such a dominant outhalf in Sexton.
Byrne is far more suited to playing a controlling game where he’s a cog in the wheel than Carbery, who is more off the cuff and far looser.
Despite Leinster fans still complaining about Carbery moving, I think we’ll look back in years to come and think differently.
@Oval Digest: not gonna lie, I was and still am sick Joey left(delighted for him tho, as he gets more time in the position he wants)but I always thought Ross was the better 10. Sick Joey left because I thought he would have been a world class 15 for Leinster
@Oval Digest: how many of those games were this season? Fine thing to be talking bout last year or the year before.
@.: the USA game didn’t count for anything apparently. Well it didn’t if your name was kilcoyne, Ryan, Conway or Beirne.
@Jim Demps: You must remember the one in in the Aviva anyway Jim!
You said ‘Byrne looks great playing against poor teams and getting 10 minute cameos at the end of games.’
I’m pointing out that’s factually incorrect.
(You do love a good goalpost shift though wha!)
@William Finnegan: well I suppose it was that selection policy that led to Carbery moving on wasn’t it?
@Jim Demps: don’t be silly Jim. Ross has the greatest irish fly half in history competing with him for minutes. Joey has JJ. Facts are when both were at Leinster a few months ago, the coaches that see the perform the most, believed Ross was better
@Jim Demps: it was but I have no problem with that, because I believe Ross is the better 10
@Oval Digest: it’s right there in my first post, where I said this season. First line in fact. Why would I be talking bout last season when carbery was in Leinster? K I’ll clarify for you. I’m talking about Byrne and Carbery this season. Now tell me which big games Byrne has started and been brilliant in.
@Jim Demps: Haha good man! Shift those goalposts!
Byrne started against Munster in the Aviva, and comprehensively outplayed Carbery. Don’t you remember?!
@Oval Digest: yes I remember. That’s one. Go on.
@William Finnegan: Schmidt doesn’t believe Byrne is better…
@Jim Demps: I can’t argue there, even tho I would like to
@Jim Demps: you comments about Byrne are just silly.
Answer me this who is joey actually going to learn from at Munster? Who at munster can coach an international 10 who maybe having confidence issues? Felix maybe?
Byrne has sexton and Lancaster to help him.
It’s like choosing between Trinity college or the regional college in ballykillmuck
@Jim Demps: I’m not gonna thrawl through every one of your posts, but using Schmidt as an example is key. Did you agree with every selection he’s made? I don’t think you have, especially for the front row sub positions. Now you’re using Schmidt’s selections to back up a point when it suits?
@Jim Demps: No that’s it, I think that disproves the point that ‘Byrne looks great playing against poor teams’.
Or come to think of it, maybe it proves it actually…
@grandslamkbo: do you know anyone who’s right all of the time? Or wrong all of the time for that matter?
@Oval Digest: maybe it does. Stick your thesis up on ur blog there
@grandslamkbo: I’m pretty sure Schmidt selects Carbery for the same reason he had Madigan before Jackson. Jacksons was obviously the better flyhalf but Madigan offered more cover from the bench. I’m not suggesting there’s the same difference in ability between Byrne and Carbery as there was between Madigan and Jackson but Schmidt likes to have players on the bench who cover more than one position.
@Jim Demps: Haha ah Jim tis the season don’t be grumpy! Happy Xmas!
@Jim Demps: the one v munster
@Chris Mc: is that Lancaster the flanker you’re on about? How’s he going to teach Byrne how to play ten? Carbery will learn plenty from getting plenty of game time and he will still have plenty of access to sexton as well in the Irish camp. Do you think you learn more from doing or from watching? Prob a mixture of both
@Jim Demps: That arrigo sachi comment about coaching and playing comes to mind whenever Chris brings up that point
@Jim Demps: no it’s the fly half contepomi
He’s better at fullback and Ross Byrne will probably turn out the better 10.
@.: He just turned 23. He’s miles ahead of Sexton at the same age. The speed with which people are writing him off, when he’s playing his first full season as the first choice 10, is crazy.
@grandslamkbo: He’s undoubtedly extremely gifted and is one of us. I hope he has a long and amazing career. BUT, I still stand by my earlier statement. In the long run he’ll be better at fullback playing as a second playmaker.
@grandslamkbo: that’s munster for you. They write off players very quickly and look for the next shiny thing. Poor Keatly and JJ have had torrid times from fans, could be the same for Joey. Ex players like Copeland have talked about the ridiculous pressure in the Munster environment. I’m not calling them world beaters but I’d imagine its very hard for a half back to perform when there’s a lack of coherent game plan.
The coming year will be very interesting, they now have all the tools they could ever want. Time for the team to perform or its about time they examined their coaching, at lower levels too. I fear it’ll just be another witch hunt in the playing squad tho
@Kendo90: Andy Dunne is a Leinster man.
He had a poor game last weekend with a dominant scrum in front of him and getting fed by the best 9 in the world. Whatever, it’s no big deal. He’s been great for us so far and he’ll only get better. Andy Dunne is talking shit.
@grandslamkbo: spot on. Sexton was still in his training nappies at Joeys age while Joey has beaten the all blacks playing for his country. It’s has after one game the knives are out and I can tell you it’s not from Munster folk. It’s almost as if people were wishing him to have a bad game so they could come out and criticise.
@Leo Erah: Even Gavin Casey referenced the grumblings from Munster fans. It wasn’t just Dunne. There were a few people on mf.com asking if Carbery should be automatically first choice.
@grandslamkbo: there was a few people on here. Even crazier is they want JJ to replace him
@Leo Erah: “…the knives are out and I can tell you it’s not from Munster folk.” That’s absolutely not true. I’m not saying fans of other teams aren’t at it, but go to the Castres v Munster match thread on mf.com. You’ll find Munster folk having their say.
@Leo Erah: it’s munster fans doing a Keatley on him. Just send him back after next season and he’s still young enough for Leo and Stuart to fix
@Chris Mc: For Leo to fix?? Leo will do as Stuart tells him.
“Byrne looks great playing against poor teams and getting 10 minute cameos” would that be why he got man of the match at Aviva a couple of months ago.
@Darren Byrne: hey it’s not as if Byrne was picked to play 10 ahead of Joey when Sexton wasn’t playing last season.
@William Finnegan: to be honest I’m delighted to see them both playing at 10 its what Ireland really needs. Neither will oust Johnny before the world cup but post 2019 we’re going to need at least two really good fly halves going forward. My comment was supposed to be a response to Jim, don’t know what happened.
@Darren Byrne: you’re right. Both guys playing at ten is what serves everyone the best. It’ll remain to be seen who will take over from sexton but either way having both playing regularly will develop both of them.
A fit and firing Bleyendaal is our best 10 in a cauldron like away to Castres, both Joey and JJ seem to struggle if they’re not behind a comfortably dominant pack.
@Rochelle: come on. He had the stuffing knocked out of him by that hit and never recovered fully. He was playing with an underfiring Murray for the first time behind a pack that were slow to and lost the breakdown, had no functioning maul or lineout and in a team that made poor decisions on and off the pitch all game. Throw in a ref and officiating team that lost control of the game to boot but it’s all Jamie’s fault? What Shite.
@Rochelle: every 10 struggles behind a pack that’s being dominated!!!
@Rochelle: a fit Bleyendaal hahahaha, nice one Rochelle
@Rochelle: laughable comment , just laughable … Carbery missed some kicks , just as Sexton , ROG and so many other 10s do . The blame goes with the jersey . Bleyendaal doesn’t do much placekicking so he gets a free ride . Ross Byrne is an extremely talented 10 as I s Carbery . Carbery can also play 12 or 15 comfortably , Byrne not so much . Look at Carberys career , Irish schools he was played at 15 cos Byrne was 10, he left UCD and moved to Clontarf cos Byrne was 10 .. He’s made brave choices to further himself and has succeeded . Nothing to begrudge him and I loved seeing him play for Leinster . But Frawley looks very tasty and Sextons hanging around . They won’t all play .. if Munster fans can’t appreciate the quality they’ve got they’ll rue the day
@William Finnegan: It happened fleetingly during the 2016/17 season!
Don’t get this narrative. Seems a bit contrived from Dunne. He had one bad game and has otherwise looked good even without Murray and Farrell. Castre away is a tough place to go and the conditions were horrible and Munster pack was struggling. In H Cup back to backs they’re 6-0 when the second leg is played at home. It was never going to be an overnight success. The reason he moved was because he needed game time and he’s getting that in spades. He’ll continue improving.
@Eddie Hekenui: the voice of reason. Couldn’t agree more
Ross Byrne probably suited Munster’s style of play more and would have been a better move all around with Joey staying in Leinster when he’d of had more freedom to express himself.
@Matt Connolly: Munster have a far superior no.9 and play a 2nd 5/8th at 12. This is certainly better for Carbery and any chance of a more expansive game plan would be ruined by Byrne.
People seem to be jumping on Carberys last performance. He was injured the previous week and obviously didn’t get the kicking practice he required. Maybe coach should not have started him.
Main issue is lack of an attack coach, Jones offers nothing.
@John Buckley: 2nd 5/8 is No.12
@Bruce Lee: 2nd 5/8 is a style of 12. Not every 12 is a 2nd 5/8
@Eddie Hekenui: not sure about that Eddie. 2nd 5/8 is the standard name for 12 in NZ from when I was playing there regardless whether you were a limited crash ball fat b@stard or a baller.
@Leo Erah: It is in NZ and if you’re being overly pedantic but in general parlance, and the way the op was using it, is to refer to playing a secondary playmaker and distributor at 12. Like we wouldn’t say Brad Barrett was a 2nd 5/8 when England played him at 12 but you would say Owen Farrell was.
Maybe Carbery should have stayed at Leinster and cemented his place as a first choice 15 for Leinster bad Ireland
Are some Munster fans really turning against Carbery already? Or is it just wums? It was always going to take time to see if he can control a game from 10 or develop into to an out and out outhalf, so far hes been ticking along nicely, a poor game every now and again is to be expected as a player develops, its what they learn from them that counts. Anyway think JC has the tools to develop into a class outhalf, but it will take time and games to reach his full potentional and there will be a few more slip ups along the way.
@Kingshu: agreed, hes a class player. Again you see a comment or two on here and you think it reflects the masses. Most anti carbery message ain’t getting too many likes compared to pro carbery. I don’t know what Andy Donne is on about here. Totally agree with Eddie Heinekens sentiments
Carbery was bought to make a difference and win big matches. Sadly he disappointed massively last weekend.
Needs to play if he’s gonna be good.