JACKIE MCCARTHY-O’BRIEN cannot help but smile when she thinks back.

The first-ever black woman to represent the Republic of Ireland women’s national football team, McCarthy-O’Brien earned her first cap against Northern Ireland in 1981.

“For me, personally as a black child growing up, to get a sense of belonging, to be Irish,” she says. “I am as Irish as they come. My mother is Irish. I grew up in Ireland. I am nearly 62.

“To stand in front of Amhrán na bhFiann. Knowing that that jersey I was wearing, no one could ever take my Irish jersey away from me again. The colour of my skin didn’t matter — I might look Jamaican on the outside but I am Irish in the middle.”

McCarthy-O’Brien is a true trailblazer. She went on to play for the Ireland women’s rugby team, and she influenced her daughter, Sam, to also become an international footballer.

“I’d been up in Dublin every weekend, for every training session with Mam since I was knee-high to a grasshopper,” Sam laughs. “For me it was like, ‘This moment has finally come for me, I get to do what I’ve watched Olivia O’Toole, Linda Gorman, Sue Hayden all those players who’d gone before’. Now it was my time to shine.”

The pair are speaking to the media at an FAI event in Dublin marking the 50th anniversary of the Women’s National Team. A double act of sorts, the bounce off each other. Very few questions are needed, and they chat away as if the assembled reporters aren’t even there.

A breath of fresh air, but also an education.

Amid the memories and positivity surrounding Ireland’s World Cup dream, an important conversation must be had.

The mother and daughter have joined the FAI, Adam Idah and many others in condemning the recent racist abuse aimed at Ireland underage players.

Last week, the Association released a statement criticising the “vile and horrific” messages sent online in relation to members of the Irish U15s team after their back-to-back wins over Latvia.

Jackie McCarthy O’Brien won 13 caps for Ireland.

“Look, we’re a nation of begrudgers aren’t we really sometimes, us Irish? Unfortunate to say, but coming from mother and daughter, ex-internationals, plus I think we’re the first black mother and daughter to represent their country,” Sam says.

“There’s a lot of hate there. Even look at the English team at the Euros, you had the three guys that came up and took the penalties and they were slated for it; their colour, their creed, their race, everything was brought into it.”

“Look, there is racism in Ireland,” Jackie picks up. “There’s no point in sugarcoating it, there is racism. And I will say it to you that nowadays, it’s actual racism because back when I was growing up, it was ignorance. You stuck out like a sore thumb. There was four black people living in in Limerick and you got stared at. I had kids coming up licking my hand, thought I was made of chocolate. It was not knowing – that’s the honest to God truth.

“Today, you can’t hide behind and say, ‘Oh, it’s ignorance. They’re educated. You seen it with Black Lives Matter with George Floyd when that happened. I remember in the middle of Covid going into my local in Limerick, we done a minute’s silence, well nine minutes, and people were giving out, ‘How could you come out and Covid for this?’ It was something that I feel very strongly about. I’m black Irish and I’m proud of my heritage. My father was Jamaican, but I’ve grown up here. This is part of going forward. I’ve got a grandson that I don’t want to go through what I went through as a young one. I want him to integrate and be as part of the Irish society as he can.”

“We see it in the Premiership,” Sam adds. “That flag is on every billboard, ‘No to Racism’, the armband is worn. Those kids, they’re going to have good management, a good support team behind them. Unfortunately, they’re going to be able to take it. They shouldn’t have to.”

Jackie takes over once again, her daughter nodding in agreement. “It’s sad to say that I had to get a thick skin and just laugh it off. At times I was making jokes, just to fit in.

“It will change, and I think sport is the way to change it. More people of colour and visibility. As Sam said said, Phil Babb, Paul McGrath – I idolise Paul McGrath, we come from the same background and whatever. It will happen, the more and more high-profile the players of colour – they shouldn’t have to be, but it has to happen. And the conversation, as painful as it is, has to happen as well. The racism has to be called out.

“And it’s hard as a person of colour to call it out. Because once you call it out, you’re the aggressor, you’re bringing attention to it, you’re the one that’s calling the race card is what you’re told. You’re not, you’re just trying to have the conversation. And once we have the conversation, slowly but surely, it will start to change. I have every confidence. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else but Ireland.”

She’s been based in Limerick most of her life.

There, she’s basking in the recent success of Vera Pauw’s team.

Ireland celebrate qualifying for the World Cup. Ryan Byrne / INPHO Ryan Byrne / INPHO / INPHO

With fellow legends Olivia O’Toole, Sue Hayden and Linda Gorman, and current star Ellen Molloy among those involved in the 50th anniversary milestone event, McCarthy-O’Brien beams: “Little did I think as an 11-year-old kicking a ball in Limerick that I would even get the chance to represent Ireland, nevermind be here today, 50 years on and our team is off the World Cup.

“At the Sky conference I spoke about what it was like, and the emotion I felt just to be in that room with players who are going off to a World Cup… it’s just an amazing feeling.

“This team is our baby in a way, This is what we grew from kicking that ball in Shelbourne Park back 50 years ago and here it is. Our baby has grown up and is leaving the nest and going off to Australia to represent us in the World Cup.”

What about watching last October’s historic play-off victory over Scotland at Hampden Park?

“It was nerve-wracking,” Jackie says. “It’s like child birth, you don’t know what you’re going to get!”

“My first call was Olivia O’Toole,” Sam recalls. “I didn’t get through to her, rang her the next day and she said, ‘Sam I can’t speak to you, I’m hoarse!’. The feeling was brilliant.”

And off they go, over and back.

Jackie: Limerick is sports mad. I went to the market the following week and it must have taken me three hours to get around five minutes of a walk. You’d people coming up congratulating you and it was like, ‘I done nothing!’. They were saying, ‘No, no, no – I remember watching you when you were 11, I remember one goal you scored’. The whole of the city and the whole of Ireland is going to buy into this.

It can’t go backwards. The beauty of this team is they have a manager that has… you can see the belief in them. It feels nearly like Vera is on the pitch with them. She brings this element of belief that we’re there to win this and not just compete.”

Sam: Young girls in school, you ask them what they want to be when they grow up. They’re putting their hands up and saying a soccer player. Before they never thought they could be. Today’s Irish team, there is an expectation and a weight on their shoulders but I think they’ll thrive on that.

Jackie: When you wear that jersey… I always felt ten-foot taller. I’m proud as hell of doing it. And I’m proud of this one [Sam]. My proudest moment, I went to watch her scoring four goals in a match. I was like, ‘Ah, you don’t get me down off this cloud, I’ll never get home!’

Sam: I think it was the first time an underage Irish team had qualified for Uefa. We had to beat Turkey 4-0 to reach the second round. Noel King was our manager at the time, he came around the room and he said, ‘How many are you going to score? How many are you going to score?’ He came to me and I said, ‘I’m going to score all four of them.’ I scored the four goals and we went to the next round. I’ll never forget scoring for my country. There wasn’t that many girls even playing football at my time. We had to play with the boys still. I’m 40 this year, so it was only what 30 years ago. I was 10, I was still kicking ball with boys and there was no girls playing soccer, not in Limerick anyway.

Jackie: I started at 11 and I played on an all-women’s team and by the time Sam came along to play, she went back and played underage with the boys up until 12. I never played with a boys team, unless it was on the road, but I was one of the lucky ones at 11 to sign with a League of Ireland team. The league really started through Limerick from a guy called Junior King. He started League of Ireland, and at 11, I was playing with 17 and 18-year-olds.

Sam and Jackie. Tom Maher / INPHO Tom Maher / INPHO / INPHO

The chat could go on all day. What about picking it up in Australia this summer?

Neither unfortunately are going to the World Cup, but they’ll be kicking every ball from home.

“I have a little grandson aged six and we booked our first holiday abroad in three years over lockdown,” Jackie explains. “I’ve put out some feelers if Nana wasn’t to go and I was to go to [Australia] and I’ve got daggers!”

“I’m starting to build my house this year,” says Sam. “I know Livvy put out a thing to see would a lot of the ex-internationals go, but unfortunately we won’t be there. I’d probably be missing a kitchen sink or a bathroom, or maybe two bedrooms off the list there for a while. ‘We can do them next year!’”

“I keep doing the lottery and hoping that I could take them to Australia,” Jackie laughs.

At that, her daughter interjects and they go back and forth into the sunset.

Sam: I’m 40 this year, I think it would be a lovely 40th for me!

Jackie: Ah look what you’ve started!

Sam: It would be a good present.

Jackie: I’m keeping schtum on that one.

Sam: It’s the only time you’ll hear her schtum!