This interview appears in summer edition of IRUPA’s In Touch Magazine.
IN JUNE 2013, Devin Toner set off for North America with five international caps to his name but only one Test start. This summer he toured Argentina as one vital half of a formidable second row partnership with Paul O’Connell.
Caps six to 15 were all starts as Toner bedded down in an Ireland team that clinched a Six Nations championship in Paris. The Meath native turned 28 in late June and his journey to a regular in the Ireland XV has been a long time coming.
“I came off the bench for my Leinster debut in [January] 2006. Myself and Jonathan Sexton were capped together for the first time. We were 30 or 40 points up at the time so they probably felt it was safe to throw us on.”
Toner’s early rugby career was a slow burner. He admits to unremarkable early days with the school team at Castleknock College — “They might have said I’d be a rugby player behind my back but no-one said it to my face.” He played Gaelic football and hurling until he was 17, yet credits Mick Quinn from Castleknock College for training his focus on rugby.
Competition for places in the Leinster Academy is now fierce, but Toner recalls he was the only second row to be given a one-year academy deal. The final step, before that contract was secured, was an interview with Colin McEntee [now the IRFU’s High Performance Manager]. “I was asked to come along with my parents,” says Toner, “and Colin asked ’do you want to be a professional rugby player?’ My response was along the lines of ’Hell yeah’.”
Six caps arrived over Toner’s first two years in blue with his first pro contract penned in 2007, ahead of a season when Leinster won the Celtic League to uncork a trophy glut that continued on 31 May with the RaboDirect PRO12 title. While he was part of Leinster’s supporting cast, Toner featured prominently for Lansdowne in the AIL and for Ireland U21s.
Underage teammates included players such as Sexton, Billy Holland, Rob Kearney, Duncan Williams and Fionn Carr. Leo Cullen and Malcolm O’Kelly were the Leinster totems during Toner’s early years but each season saw him develop into a indispensable squad member.
2010/11 was breakthrough season as he made 22 provincial appearances, won a Test debut against Samoa and featured off the bench in ties with New Zealand and Argentina.
There was a three-year gap between Toner’s third and fourth cap. In between, he met Joe Schmidt and benefited from the New Zealander’s keen coaching interest. By the time Declan Kidney departed the international stage, Toner had enjoyed his best season for Leinster and had matured into a line-out leader and a cornerstone of one of club rugby’s best packs.
Still, when Ireland caretaker coach Les Kiss selected him to tour Canada and the USA, many expected Toner to feature before ceding a second row position to the likes of Donnacha Ryan or Mike McCarthy.
“That tour was really important for me,” he says, “and I saw it as a real chance to step up and prove myself at Test level. It was an opportunity for me to lead the forwards and call the line-outs as I was one of the most experienced in the squad. I was at the end of a successful season with Leinster, having won the league and Challenge Cup final.
“Having made my debut in 2010, I was determined to make the most of it second time around. I put a lot of the lack of opportunities down to the quality players in my position – Paul O’Connell is world-class and you have lads like Donncha O’Callaghan and Ryan who have proven themselves against the very best.”
Schmidt has won acclaim for setting personal goals and tactical tweaks that bring the best out of his players. Toner remarks that Schmidt gave him no specifics when he advanced from Leinster to Ireland duty. Working on defence, he adds, is something both player and coach agreed needed strengthening.
“Missed tackles, and falling off tackles, used to be a weakness of my game but I feel I have got on top of that now. That comes with experience too. The more games you play, the better you position yourself to make the tackle of anticipate a team or player’s next move.”
Toner also credit’s the work John Plumtree, who returned to coach in New Zealand after the Argentina tour, put in with the Irish pack last season. He explains, “Plumtree said, after a short while with us, ‘I think you have a good pack but I want it to be a great pack’. The mauls are used to target many teams in New Zealand and South Africa, where he worked, so he made improvements there. He also worked on our line-out and, during the Six Nations, we got it pretty spot on.”
One thing that Toner, Schmidt and Plumtree were not expecting was to lose team captain and chief line-out caller, O’Connell to a stomach bug hours before the Six Nations opener against Scotland. “I was told the morning of the game that Paulie wouldn’t make it,” the lock recalls. “We look to prepare for all eventualities but it was still a bit of a shock to be told ’Ok, you’re in’. There were a few butterflies but I’m used to calling so once the game starts, it all came together.”
The entire tournament came together well for Toner as he started each of the five Tests. He claimed 19 line-outs, won six turnovers for Ireland and won 47 tackles [missing only three in the five games]. The performances were recognised by his fellow professionals as he was nominated for the IRUPA player of the year [a prize claimed by another revived, resurgent Test player, Andrew Trimble].
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Having played 30 times for Leinster and Ireland last season, and with a World Cup just over a year away, Toner insists missing this summer’s tour was never an option. “This is the first real season I have had of full involvement with the Ireland team so I’m not close to needing that time off. There was no way I was going to miss the tour, to be honest. Guys like Cian Healy and Sean O’Brien are well established in the squad but I’m still proving myself.
“Everybody has targets and I am looking at the World Cup, no doubt. All I want to do is play in the next round of Ireland games [in November]. If I’m in the team, I’ll go from there and hopefully that will take me all the way to next year.”
This interview appears in summer edition of IRUPA’s In Touch Magazine.
Poor from the irfu and not fair on a player who has done so much good for Irish rugby.
Paddy Jackson has learned so much from him, that alone is worth his wages.
Hey Chris,
Was that you writing an article for Harpin On Rugby?
Yeah Cian it was. I think harpo is just trying to keep me quite. I am going to do one a week.
It was very good, Chris. And such balanced tone. I didn’t think you had it in you! :)
Do they have spellcheck?
Going to check that out. Cheers.
Bit of a disappointing way to go. Great player for Ulster, though. He’ll be a hard man to replace. Wish him all the best.
Could he have pledged for Ireland maybe and circumvent it that way, or can you not change once you’re capped
He was playing for the Springboks only a short while ago and has plenty of caps. There is no justifiable grounds for him to be allowed play for Ireland, and he wants to play for SA regardless. You can’t just flip flop on your nationality, when you play for a country you commit your test career to that country. He’s given a lot to Irish rugby, but that’s a bit of an extreme measure.
Seems a strange decision to allow Piutau to come yet deny Pienaar. Pienaar doesn’t appear to be blocking many young players at Ulster. Paul Marshall is the regular back up at 9 and he’s on the wrong side of 30. Whereas Piutau will be playing in a position where we already have an embarrassment of riches. Seems a tad inconsistent. As exciting as Piutau is, on balance I’d rather keep Ruan.
What’s more inexplicable for me is the decision to keep on Ludik. There are better places they could have used their project player place on, and it won’t aid the development of players like Stockdale. He’s a decent enough player, but he’s not really needed.
Piutau’s arrival allows Payne to play regularly in the centre . That suits the IRFU .
They will also be needed. It’s a long season and everyone will get plenty of game time.
Surely the summer tour proves that Payne’s best position for Ireland is full back. Would hate to see him pushed back into centre.
Ulster fan. Devastated he’s leaving, his family are based and he’s now settled here. The fella lives Ulster Rugby and I’ve been delighted to meet him a few times. However we all knew this time was coming. To be frank, I expected the IRFU to come in on this a few years ago. Needs to be sorted though, we have some poor quality NIQ lads here who are looking for a stepping stone or the big paycheck. Pienaar never struck me as that and he bought into the philosophy around Ravenhill. He’ll be missed but we have to look at his influence and be glad we had him while we did
It is not Ruan that should be leaving. That distinction should go to Nucifora who is doing all he can to wreck Irish rugby. His favourite word seems to be no. IRFU are paying him a huge salary and I have yet to see any benefits. The decision to abandon Pienaar will influence the decision of other players to come to Ireland.
What rule is stopping pienaar from staying on ?
That’s a big loss for Ulster. How come no province made an attempt to bring James Hart back? He’s still young, has plenty of experience and is Irish qualified. Maybe Hart is happy in France but he could have been tempted home.
Munster have Murray, Ulster still had Pienaar and Connacht have Marmion. Even if Murray doesn’t play that much Hart would still be second choice there. Leinster are the only ones who could have really gone after him, but they chose to get JGP instead. You always want to see good Irish players abroad to come back, but I think that Hart is nearly better off where he is.
Hart is a good swap for Pienaar , a place kicking scrum half who can stand in at 10 comfortably .Perhaps Racing will think the same , Hart’s wage in Paris would be the main stumbling block for Ulster .
James Hart (decent enough by all accounts) is however nowhere near the level of Pienaar. Hart had a decent season two years back but had a stop start one last year so to compare a seasoned Springbok to Hart is delusional.
Pienaar showed loyalty to Ulster a few years back when bigger clubs came calling and now that he’s approaching 33 the IRFU have stung him, very poor decision.
I’m not comparing Hart directly to Pienaar , but Ulster are overloaded with NIQ’s and Pienaar is the oldest and probably one of the most expensive . He still missed out on large chunks of games through his international availability up to recently . Piatau will be 100% available barring injury and is a lot younger , Ireland need another competitive 9 playing for the provinces now that Reddan and Boss are gone and Ulster need younger players in that position. Paddy Jackson should be able to stand on his own two feet now , he certainly did so this summer .
Both Murray and Marmion will miss plenty of games due to international fixtures. I think Murray only played 5/6 pro12 games for Munster last season. Even if Hart went to ulster he would be would learn plenty from Piennar for one season and then it’s up to him. There are pros and cons to every move but where ever Hart landed in Ireland he would get plenty of game time.
While I agree with you there Paul, I guess I just feel that he wouldn’t come back to Ireland and turn down the lucrative contract he was offered for what is still at the end of the day a second choice place, no matter what game time he felt he might get. But none of the provinces went for him in the end so arguing about whether or not he should have come back is kind of a moot point.
One reason that he’s not being pursued is that Hart hasnt featured in any Irish teams (under 20′s, B team etc), plus hes just signed for Racing.
Luke McGrath looked like the real deal but hasnt progressed at senior level adequately enough so far. Cooney is back up now in the West and probably not far off being capped.
As for Duncan William’s, hmmm!
The truth is that there is a real dearth of quality in the position across the board.
I’ve heard that hart was approached but no one was willing to match his French wages. He stuck with money. Not a big loss in my opinion
Ulster overloafed eith NIQs? Name them Limon.
- Anton Peikrishvili, Georgia,
- Franco van der Merwe, South Africa
- Marcel Coetzee, South Africa
- Louis Ludik, South Africa
- Wiehan Herbst, South Africa
- Charles Piautau, New Zealand
- Ruan Pienaar, South Africa
Ulster look like they are starting to bring through a lot of academy lads in the backline but even outside of that group above you have a colossal number of project players or foreigners signed with irish heritage. For example Herring, Tuohy, Black, Diack, Reidy, Payne, Ah You etc.
Thats not to discredit these people but just to highlight that there is a huge lack of starting XV players that have come through the academy. The writing was on the wall for this one for a while. Where was the forward planning when they instead secured a huge number of back three players.
Donal, that’s a bit disingenuous, Peikrishvili is a direct replacement for Herbst.
Robert, even if you discount him, they still exceed the NIQ quotas. They could probably cope without some of those NIQ’s easier than being without Pienaar, but they’re signed those guys and they payed the price.
Thomas, I don’t believe this is an issue of NIQs, this is a “succession policy” anomaly. My understanding is that Ludik is the project player and Herbst is shortly to become Irish qualified, if he isn’t already – he was signed, originally, as a project player. That means that Ulster have the requisite 4 NIQs, one of which is Peinaar.
Peikrishvili has been signed until 19 December as emergency injury cover. Franco, Coetzee, Piatau and Ruan are NIEs not NIQs. Herbst and Ludik are NIQs and will be eligible in Summer 2017. Diack and Payne were NIQs but are now full internationals. Ah You was signed by Ulster as a full international. Herring, Tuohy, Black and Reidy qualify through family and were never NIEs. As for the starting XV, 8 of them are Ulster born and bred. The huge number of back 3 players secured…Ludik and Piatau?
Thanks D
Massive loss and while I understand the need for the NIQ quotas, surely exceptions can be made for the likes of Pienaar. He has been one of the main factors in Ulster’s revival and ha been a great servant for 6 years. Maybe there is an obvious successor he is blocking from progressing or Ulster need the NIQ spot for Piatau or Coetzee but pity to see such an influential and committed players who wants to stay being forced to move to the Top14 when we are already struggling to compete with them.
Reminds me of the crap with Paul Warwick at Munster being only offered a 1 year extension. The guy lived for the provence
He lived for Connacht first
That’s a terrible decision..stupid rule..big loss to ulster and a shame for all of us interested in the pro12 that we won’t see him play here anymore..
What Ulster scrumhalves have been prevented from becoming star players by Pienaar?
How were Leinster left sign Gibson Park leaving just 2 provinces starting Irish scrum halves. McGrath and McCarthy are getting the same kick Maddigan got when they replaced Sexton
No idea how they were allowed sign him (although it does look like a great signing). Priority should really be given to the retention of the incumbent province to retain their player over another province signing a new one up. Is it something got to do with Gibson Park being a project player whereas Pienaar is totally NIQ? Perhaps if Pienaar wasn’t playing international rugby he’d have been retained.
You are assuming Park will start for Leinster.
If he plays like he did for the Hurricanes in the semi final I’d expect him to. Admittedly, it’s easy coming on as a sub, but he was an absolute live wire with all the positive play going through him. He’s an ambitious player, and with TJ Perenara ahead of him in the pecking order there was no way he was getting enough game time.
It’s amazing how foreign players can become Irish internationals through eligibility processes & yet they have a ‘succession policy’. Policies seem inconsistent with each other.
Watched Ulster on TV so many times, just watching Ruan’s play. Absolutely mesmeric, a mastery of his position that you rarely see. It’s a huge loss to Pro12
Yeah as a Leinster fan I have to admit it, if it’s the case Ruan has to leave due to Gibson-Park coming in it stinks. Great player ads to the league and I would have thought there would be a chance he’d stay on to coach after playing, which is also a huge loss to Irish rugby considering his experience
Pienarr to Connacht, Marmion to Ulster anyone?
This leaves Ulster with Paul Marshall – 31, Angus Loyd – 23 ( His first season as a pro ), and in the academy Dave Shanahan and Jonathon Stewart both uncapped for Ulster (according to their website anyway). Not really acceptable for a team of Ulster’s pedigree. The only Positive being a decision was made early and there’s plenty of time to search for a replacement. They best they can really hope for is to add some more experience, there’s not too many top quality Irish scrumhalves knocking around. Unless they unearth a granny rule player.
Ah what a shame. Ulster have nothing like a 9 with that quality.
Can someone explain the IRFU succession policy?
Essentially it’s a policy that restricts numerous renewals to contracts for foreign players & also prevents a club replacing a non-Irish playing position with another. It’s designed to prevent an overflow of foreign players in Irish teams boxing out up and coming Irish players. Personally I think it’s bullshit, with the work in the academies & development of players in the Ulster Bank league, that’s never going to happen anyway.
Thanks Jimmy, but I just don’t get it. Surely if Pienaar were to sign another extension then he would be one of the Ulster NIQ quota? Are we confusing the two i.e. NIQ quotas and “IRFU succession policy”? I agree, it’s bullshit, Pienaar has done more to promote the game in Ulster since Mike Gibson. Let’s see if they apply it across the board.
Robert as I understand it the idea is that the provinces should be using the years they have a NIQ to develop home grown options.
For example Munster had BJ Botha for the past few years. He has left and gone to Lyon and IQ John Andress and local players Stephen Archer / John Ryan / Brian Scott will be expected to suffice this season.
The IRFU want to avoid a situation where a province gets used to a foreign player and therefore has to keep signing foreign replacements. For example back a few years ago again BJ Botha was in Ireland playing for Ulster. When he left he was replaced by All Black, John Afoa. When Afoa left he has been replaced by Wian Herbst.
Munster were similarly awful for it when it came to outside centres. Tipoki replaced by Tuitupou replaced by Jean de Villiers replaced by Casey Laulala replaced by Andrew Smith replaced by Francis Saili. Thats not including the injury cover we drafted in from Will Chambers, Pat Howard and now Jaco Taute.
Donal, I get that but I’m having difficulty squaring the circle with Gibson-Park’s signing by Leinster.
I still think there’s hypocrisy in there. And inconsistency too, as happy as I am to see Isa Nacewa back for Leinster, presumably this succession rule wouldn’t have allowed him to renew a couple of years ago. I’m guessing here but they probably loopholed that by the fact he wasn’t there for a couple of seasons & it was a brand new contract. And yet a South African (Stander) is now one of Ireland’s best players. Don’t get me wrong, delighted to have him in the international squad but to open doors at international level & close them at provincial level is double standards. And now Ulster are losing one of their best players of the last number of years, a man who is settled & raising a family in Belfast and doesn’t want to leave. Like I said, bullshit.
In a nut shell Robert, there can be only one NIE/NIQ player in any one position across all 4 provinces (unless Nucifora says so) to maintain the production line and development of indigenous players.
Didn’t know that Andrew, thanks. Still think it’s a crap policy.
Perhaps something that influenced the IRFU’s decision was that Ulster have a fair few NIQ players right now. I might be sounding like I’m having a go at Ulster but I’m not. Right now the IRFU rules state that you can have four NIQ players and one project player. Ulster have Herbst, Pienaar, Piutau, Coetzee and Van Der Merwe in the NIQ spots and Ludik in the project player place, and they have just been allowed to sign Peikrishvili on a short term contract. Perhaps they felt that too many Irish player’s paths were getting blocked? I do feel a fair bit unhappy about this decision, but I can understand why it would make sense to Nucifora.
Thomas, I refer the honourable gentlemen to the answer I gave some moments ago. My understanding is Herbst IQ, Ludik, project player and Van de Merwe, Coetzee, Piatau and Pienaar the four NIQ. The Georgian prop is an emergency signing as Ah You is the only fit TH.
How is Herbst IQ though? He’s never been considered for Ireland before, which rules out qualifying through his parents, and he was signed around the same time as Ludik, so he hasn’t yet qualified through residency. You are not allowed two project players at once. I was not saying that the decision not to renew Pienaar’s contract was due to quotas, but merely that the number of NIQ’s at Ulster may have factored into the whole “succession planning” thing, given how murky the rules that govern how the whole “selection planning” works seem murky and unclear.
Sorry for making that last sentence confusing.
Superb opening sentence though
I know this has happened to other provinces (when Hines was pushed out at Leinster it really annoyed me) but I feel there should be an exception made in Pinear’s case. The guy is brilliant, has made Belfast his home and has indicated he wants to get involved in the coaching side of thigs at Ulster. I understand the IRFU arguments but Pinear is such a key figure for Ulster, has such vast experience that I do believe the IRFU should have a rethink. There are times when we need ‘foreign’ talent to bolster squads but this decision will make it more difficult to attract that talent in the future.
Would love to see Pienarr in Munster.
We constantly complain about the budgets of English and French clubs and our inability to attract big players. Is it any surprise. Teo let go. Stephen Moore not allowed sign. Pienaar now dumped!
Teo wasn’t let go ! He had an unbelievable offer from Worcester and that included getting into the England Squad straight away where he qualifies through his mother .. It’s like saying Connacht let Henshaw go ..
Ulster will be able to redirect Pienaar’s into the contract of a new scrum half . Conor Murray to Ulster ?
Redirect Pienaar’s salary
Don’ t think we are allowed to go for a NIQ scrum half.