WHO EMERGES FROM Ireland and South Africa’s Saturday night epic in best shape to progress through the competition and ultimately win the World Cup?
That was one of the questions asked on today’s episode of Rugby Weekly Extra, a podcast for subscribers to The 42.
Bernard Jackman, the former Ireland hooker, said South Africa’s credibility as potential World Cup winners has been enhanced and not diminished as a result of their narrow loss to Andy Farrell’s side.
“I think they’ll beat France in a quarter-final,” Jackman said.
“They’re the worst team France could play because France aren’t actually that well drilled at the moment. Their attack is actually very average in terms of they’re relying on these individuals to light it up, and that’s obviously hard enough to shut down but I think South Africa have enough individuals who can match that x-factor that France have without Dupont (who Jackman believes will return for the semi-final should France qualify).”
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Jackman believes Ireland can negotiate the challenge of Scotland, New Zealand and the semi-finalists to make it to the decider, against South Africa.
“So while I have no doubt we can hurt them, it’s going to be so much harder in the final. And I think they’re going to close up and just double down on a kicking game, set piece and defence, so yeah I think they come out of this . . . we needed to win, and we did win and we’ll get better for it but my estimation of South Africa has gone up if that makes sense, I still think Ireland can win it but I think they’ve come out of this laughing.”
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I don’t think SA’s confidence will have taken a battering but “laughing”? I’m not so sure.
@Ian Frizzell: Media innit.
@Ian Frizzell: bit over the top that
Populous comment, bigging up for the sake of bigging up ( laughing after the game I think not ) the team with most amount of improvement from that game is Ireland, loads of missed opportunities including 3 line outs lost on the 5 metre line in first 20 mins , lots of talk of Boks kicking , Christ 2 were beyond the 50 Metre line so hardly drop kicks, I would love it if Ireland had the opportunity to meet them again down the line
@Seamus Kelly: fafs one that hit the post led to their try, so it wasn’t exactly costly.
@Seamus Kelly: “Ireland can still win it but……”
We are favourites, right? Let’s act like favourites then.
We might never be in this position again (certainly in my lifetime). Four more games and all against teams we have beaten recently. We shouldn’t be bigging up any of the opposition. #COYBIG
@Seamus Kelly: I think the Boks will find it easier to solve the kicking problems by shoe horning Pollard into the team. The question for them then will change though… where does the creativity come from. If Pollard had played last night instead of Libbok, they may have converted 2 of the 3 pens (1 was too far even for Pollard), but they wouldn’t have scored the try. Final score 13 – 9 Ireland. Do you bring Pollard in at 12 (and lose a huge carry threat) or 15? That’s also a huge risk with only 1 or 2 backs on the bench.
@Barry newell: yeah, but that’s not exactly a reliable tactic, is it? I mean if you have a kicker who can hit the post every time from 56 metres then cool :)
I think what no one has mentioned is that South Africa, knowing they had an unreliable kicker, still opted to kick for points from half way, rather than kick to touch. And I think they did that because they felt they could not reliably break down our defence after the first half. The “but they left 11 points out there” narrative ignores WHY they were taking the kicks at all, and that is down to Irish pressure on their attack.
@Cathal Murphy: I’m actually flabbergasted as to why the boks did not kick to the corners but instead opted to kick goalkicks from far out… Our rolling maul is a massive strenth and we didn’t see a maul lineout from the boks until the end of them game? It’s like the boks sat back hoping to win the game with kicks from a poor kicking libok? .. Doesn’t make sense. Something not right…
@Paul Ennis: agree 100% need libok and pollard somehow in the starting 15… But where do we put pollard? Wouldn’t be suited to replace de allende or kriel as they are speedy strong ball carriers who know that press defense inside out and willemse at 15 is on fire.. Big dilemma for the boks.. Pollard is playing this weekend so will be interesting to see the combination selection
@Stuart: yet thats the very thing that Rassie is directly intructing them to do via traffic light system. It seemed crazy. I saw at one penalty for SA in first half, the players were busy looking up for the colour of traffic light to know whether to kick for corner or posts. I think it undermines the players on field and does nothing for their confidence tbh. It looks very schoolboyish also, what does daddy say up in the stand?
@Seamus Kelly: the kick that hit the bar resulted in their only try,
@Cathal Murphy: the “they left 11 points out there” narrative is wrong!
3 of the eleven were the penalty that hit the post. But if that goes over then they don’t get the try so they don’t have a conversion to miss, so they would only have been on 6 points instead of 8. Add the other two missed kicks and they get to 12
@Ian Frizzell: well said
@Seamus Kelly: Been at the game…, we should of also going for our gimmie of a 3 pointer in place of going to the corner in the opening minutes…. This was always going to be a tight game for both sides …. Taking your points when offered should be no hesitation … Unless your SA, they have a serious problem with the BOOT… at least or line out is fixable but can SA find a goal kicker for the remainder of the tournament…. Million dollar ?
@Ian Frizzell: One game at a time..Its not as if the Scottish are going to need motivation against us but I can see their penalty count being high especially if we can drain their early energy..
Lads I’m not a big rugby fan, I enjoy watching it but don’t always understand it.
But here’s my twopence worth,
Where would a fellow get a few thousand of them traffic light things? I’d say we could have loads of fun in the stadium, they wouldn’t know where to look and I might make a few bob in the process.
@Der Calnan: Class comment,is that you Del Boy ?
@Der Calnan:
I think both teams have learnt a lot to be fair. I don’t think we have the better of them as such, I think if (big ifs) we do meet them again, we’ve still a 50/50, although realistically don’t hold me to this as injuries and other variables could happen between then and now.
@SPQH: Yep… 100% agree.. On the button..
Just concentrate on Scotland
@Denis Mc: one game at a time sweet Jesus…
If this is an advertisement for the podcast it’s making me glad I don’t subscribe. Hot take, half baked opinions.. no thanks lads. Give me some Murray Kinsella-style analysis of the game and I might feel like I’m missing out.
Round 3 of the group stage and people are talking about the final.
How very Irish!
I’m a huge fan of Jackman as a pundit as he normally presents reasoned and substantiated arguments with his player and coaching insight informing. I hope this is clickbait taking his words out of context because otherwise this feels like the generic waffle that other newspaper pundits throw around every time. It’s a real spit in the face of the Irish team that worked hard on Saturday to imply that this is exactly what SA wanted all along and they’re delighted with the result. SA expected to bulldoze us and that didn’t really happen yet the focus is on our inability to cut them open instead and giving no credit to the numerous areas we can improve on, not least the lineout while implying they just need a kicker and it’s all grand. One-sided, myopic argument. Really really disappointing.
@PJ Smith: well said P.J your comment is bang on !
There is a lot of focus on South Africa’s missed kicks. Firstly 2 of the 4 were from beyond the halfway line, hardly tap overs. Secondly, one of those kicks rebounded iff the post and led to their try so that ended in a net gain of 2 points for them. What also has to be taken into account is our lineout messing up 4 times alone in the first 20 minutes, and all from inside the 22, some from 5m out. We turned down points there and let them off the hook with lineout malfunction ( which is becoming a serous worry, have to sort that lineout fast). Also, the small matter of ox niche getting away with standing on van der fliers hand, was a peno and red card in my opinion. Dont know if anyone noticed on more than one occasion irish players being tackled without the ball, happened berne twice and ringrose also. Pint is decisions tend to even out over the course of 80 mins. Biggest thing fie me, sort that bloody lineout ASAP
@Tj O Brien: fully agree
@Tj O Brien: you should be the refs boss and hope the refs are called to account. What are the Tmo’s doing ? Overall though a solid performance and lots to work on. Go Ireland
@Tj O Brien: I don’t think Nche would have got a red card. The video doing the rounds was slowed down and it looks far worse. He doesn’t put much weight on. 2 pens were missed, VdF holding his leg and it should have been reversed for the actions of Nche. But no card.
With or without Dupont, France have the power and depth to combat whatever Lineup & Bomb Squad the Saffers go with, and whatever their back options France’s are probably even better. Don’t forget the Kiwis went into the first game in fairly good nick, thinking they’d rattle France. France didn’t need to get out of 3rd Gear, and haven’t needed to so far this tournament. I’d back them to do so when needed, in Paris, in front of a massive home crowd…
I wouldn’t right France off that easily either
@john clancy: are new zealand
Thats one cringe headline
That article speaks volumes of Jackmans coaching mindset…. That he thinks SA didn’t mind losing that game to Ireland….. Would I be correct in saying thats the 3 in a row for Ireland against SA…. In the last 11 outings against SA Ireland have won 8…. Who’s laughing…. Winning is a nice habit…. Loaing is No laughing matter…
I don’t know about laughing. It was an absorbing encounter on Saturday night. You couldn’t take your eyes off it for a second. Both squads will have learned from each other.
What a weird headline
I think Ireland can still do well, and learned alot from this match. They didn’t collapse under the juggernaut that was thrown at them either. Come out fresher and fitter.next time
Nonsense headline.
Quite the reverse – the Boks brought their A game, and it failed. Miserably.
SA lost to a much better side, and, as others have pointed out, if Ireland get the line-out sorted, we shall be even more dominant. SA didn’t lose because Libbok was off target;
bringing in Pollard to replace him will significantly weaken their attacking options.
Ireland can, and hopefully will, get more accurate. After the form shown at the weekend I believe my Cork-born uncle who says Ireland will win the Cup!
@Mael Ughran: what a load of rubbish. “the boks brought their A game and failed miserably? , SA lost to a much better side”!!!!??? .. That could have ended iether iether way bud … Both teams were outstanding on defense and attack… I truly hope we meet again in the final after comments like that….
@Stuart: there’s a lot of emotive newcomers to rugby in the last few weeks who want to get a few comments in but poor understanding of the game – it’ll all calm down in a few weeks , enjoy the good stuff and ignore the uninformed
@Mael Ughran: I think the Boks definitely tried their best to win the game, but I don’t think they played all their cards. Having 7 forwards on the bench but then taking long range penalties in their own half instead of kicking for touch, driving and mauling much closer to the tryline doesn’t make sense to me.
I’d say Bernard’s thoughts are exactly in line with the outside world. Before the game the main SA worry would have been the pace of Ireland’s attack and could that hurt them. It didn’t really, so they will be confident that with a kicker and an even more conservative game plan, they can kick and maul their way to victory. That’s also what the betting markets are saying now….
@Tony Dunleavy: perhaps, but another way of looking at it is that can Ireland have as bad a day at the lineout again? And if it does fire, I am not sure that SA could handle that attack inside the ’22. There are so many variables, that all we know for sure is that there is very little between these sides.
I read this on a NZ website; an explanation of why Ireland won a scrum at the last maul.
Law 16.17 (Maul – Ending a maul) outlines the occasions when a maul ends unsuccessfully (resulting in a scrum to the defending team), with (d.) stating: The ball-carrier goes to ground and the ball is not immediately available.
The key word here is ‘immediately’.
Law 16.14 (Maul – During a maul): When a maul has stopped moving towards a goal-line for more than five seconds, but the ball is being moved and the referee can see it, the referee instructs the players to use the ball.
…if a defending team can legally get it to ground, because the ball does have to come out ‘immediately’ for it not to be a turnover.”
@Donal Keegan: brilliant explanation. Ball was turned over plain and simple. O Keeffe was on the open side and saw no sign of ball emerging, he then high tailed it to the blind side and no sign of ball there either. What’s he supposed to do, keep going back and over all night to see the ball emerge. Boks were too slow to get that ball out. End of
@Donal Keegan: watch the maul again, firstly .Irish no 4 is offsides, he is on the SA side of the maul trying to get his hands on the ball in a position that is also blocking SA trying to get to ball out if they tried to their bacjline. Maul then collapses and faf gets the ball out so should be play on however O Keeffe looked like he could not see the ball was out from his position on the outer side of faf… That call should have been play on or SA penalty…
@Stuart: Players can only join mauls from an onside position. As far as I understand, no. 4 is only offside if he did not join the mail from behind the hindmost foot of the player who was at the back of the maul. And attackers usually can’t get in the way of defenders trying to compete for possession of the ball.
I don’t know about them laughing but they haven’t gone away you know…
Id rather be in ireland poistion we going all the way
If Marchand and Bailley are fit then I think France scrape the win, means their bench becomes so powerful again, but it’s going to be extremely tight, Dupont is a massive loss (slim chance he plays though!)
Lads…. SCOTLAND!
Both teams came out off an epic encounter with lads of information, about both their own execution and about their opponents.
Both of the them also have areas where they can improve, but I agree I think SA have an easier path to those improvements. nd some
Scotland 1st guys and then N Zealand
As someone said 2 of the kicks Sa missed we inside their own half, Irelands line out will be much better as it couldn’t be any worse than the first 20minutes, but then Sa encroached on nearly every Lineout which the ref missed,Also for some strange reason Ireland didn’t compete on Sa lineout in the first half but did in the second half and disrupted their advances, So if Anyone is going to improve I Think Ireland will , so if anyone is laughing it’s Ireland.
My thinking is this…. SA missed kicks and made uncharacteristic decisions. Ireland missed lineouts which could have been costly… The difference being that the Boks can defend against lineouts (quite well), you can’t defend against goal kicks. On another day, when improvements have been made by both teams, it’s 50/50. SA can also revert back to 6-2 which is a different kettle of fish and Rassie usually has a few tricks up his sleeve. Looks to me like they played intensely but not the same way they would in a knockout match. If they meet again, it will be amazing. I’m a saffa, my wife is Irish!
Please don’t use the Name of God like this. God bless you all . May the best team of the day win. If not SA then Ireland or France. Greetings
Nothing untoward in what Jackman says at all. Had S.A. had their kicking boots on it was their victory. France won’t survive their intensity in the quarters. I’d be entirely focused on Scotland and nothing more whereas The Springboks are a shoo in in their game. Terrible feeling of deja vu…. hopefully Farrell has them grounded and reminds them of past media flattery.
Springbok fan here. I wouldn’t say that we are “laughing”, and I do need to add that we are livid at the poor kicking. I’m not one to make excuses or to say that “we would have won, if…” but I cannot help lament the fact that we kicked more points away than we had scored. In the end however, woulda, coulda, shoulda, DIDN’T.
So, positives? We played the best team in the world with a nonexistent goal kicker and came within one controversial call to beat them. We took the brunt of arguably the best attacking side in the comp and only had one try scored against us. Should we face each other in the final, Pollard should be kicking and Duane Vermeulen would be back and it will be a fixture in which I back us to win.
As for France? I think we can take them – in terms of World Cup Pedigree and forward strength I would back us. Now can Ireland beat NZ? Well, you have to consider form, but also pedigree and Ireland are at a disadvantage there. White line fever can set in. Also, something else to think about: only once in the entire history of the RWC has a side beaten NZ in a knockout game and mustered the strength up to win the next round… and that was Australia in 1991. Not saying Ireland can’t or won’t make the final, but my money would probably wouldn’t be on them (which is a pity because I do love this team).
Lastly…. we are not talking about England. I am terrified of them. That drop kick display against Argentina to me is exactly the type of thing you need to win a world cup. And this is a team with world cup pedigree, who has done it before and who can surprise the hell out of us all.
Then we need to talk about Australia. Sure, they have their problems, but they have some fine options in the — oh, I forgot. My bad, sorry Australia, we’ll have to have the party without you!