THE OUT-HALF situation at Ulster continues to cause debate, with Leinster’s Joey Carbery and Ross Byrne set to turn down the opportunity for one of them to move north, and there has been plenty of chat about Munster’s 10 shirt in recent weeks too.
With Tyler Bleyendaal, the front-liner in this position, currently sidelined after a second operation on his neck and Ian Keatley having endured a tough time in their Champions Cup semi-final defeat, many feel that the southern province need to look elsewhere.
JJ Hanrahan has not reached his full potential yet and has been in and out of the team, while the highly-rated 21-year-old Bill Johnston is obviously lacking in top-level experience.
‘Why doesn’t Joey Carbery move south?’ That’s been the question for many Munster fans and others in the wider Irish rugby family in recent days following the Ulster links.
Asked about that prospect and whether Munster are currently happy with their out-half situation, Munster coach Johann van Graan showed a neat sidestep.
“I wouldn’t want to comment on a lot of speculation,” said van Graan after Saturday’s Pro14 draw with Ulster.
“We’ve currently got three fit fly-halves available for selection next weekend and I’ll only focus on that for now.”
Indeed, Keatley, Hanrahan and Johnston are available for the upcoming semi-final qualifier against Edinburgh at Thomond Park on Saturday, but the longer-term future is a worry for some supporters.
Having a world-class out-half appears to be a key requirement in winning the Champions Cup and the hopes that Bleyendaal would be that figure have so far gone unfulfilled.
That the New Zealander has been injured for long periods of his time with the province since joining in 2015 hasn’t been helpful, of course.
Bleyendaal’s arrival at Munster was delayed due to neck surgery and he came to the province still rehabbing from that operation, before struggling with a quad injury.
Now that the out-half has had a second procedure on his neck, there has even been speculation that he may not return to playing.
“Yeah, I do,” said van Graan when asked if he expects to see Bleyendaal playing for Munster next season.
“The medical report is that he’ll be back in three to four months’ time. Obviously, with a long-term injury, you can have setbacks or you can come back quicker. We expect him to make a full recovery.
“He’s a massive member of our squad. Since I came, he’s only played a few minutes against Cardiff and 50 or 60 against Glasgow so hopefully he’ll make a full recovery.
“He’s going to become a dad soon as well and he’ll have to deal with that as well and we’d love to have him back on the field.”
Bleyendaal has certainly become a key figure in the Munster set-up, with his leadership in the aftermath of Anthony Foley’s death having been important to the group.
When fully fit and firing, he has shown his class at times, so the hope must be that 27-year-old Bleyendaal can overcome this latest setback and shine at 10.
The fact that he was involved in an Ireland training camp under Joe Schmidt last year – he is now qualified under residency – underlined that there is quality in his game, but the worry over his return remains.
One man who definitely won’t be playing for Munster next season is second row Gerbrandt Grobler, who impressed again in the draw against Ulster.
Van Graan confirmed on Saturday that the South African will leave this summer, with a move to Premiership side Gloucester expected to be officially confirmed soon.
It’s understood that Grobler’s agreement to join Gloucester for the 2018/19 campaign may have existed even before he joined Munster at a late stage following Donnacha Ryan’s exit.
Asked if Munster had attempted to keep Grobler at the province, van Graan again declined to shed any light on the process.
“No, I wouldn’t want to comment tonight,” said van Graan. “All I’d say is that he’s a fantastic team man. I think he’s handled himself tremendously well through a difficult time.
“He’s part of Munster and always will be part of Munster. You could just see how glad the guys were for him inside.
“He’s really bought into the culture and I’m very glad that he played a full 80 minutes and delivered that performance.”
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There is a myth out there that Leinster are giving away players to Munster, Gordon Darcy made the statement in his Irish Times column. We currently have 3 – Keatley, Conway and Copeland. Leinster have 2 – Cronin and Nagle with Reddan and Ross recently retired. Munster have a fine academy system with loads of good young players coming through as witnessed this weekend. We have some future internationals coming through right now but the media hype surrounding once in a generation players like Leavy, Ryan and Carbery is clouding the great work being done in Munster.
@Leo Erah: you forgot Oliver and loughman. Both Leinster academy players. Your point is correct though. It goes both ways. Always has done.
@Jim Demps: that’s the way it should be. If a player thinks it’s his best option then great. Jones and Conway made the correct choice as did Ross and Cronin. Forcing a player to move is not the way to go.
@Chris Mc: nobody is forcing anyone to go anywhere. If a player moves then the final decision will be his own. Id still be surprised if there isn’t movement once the season is finished tho.
I haven’t heard many Munster fans saying they’d want either Carberry or Byrne in the near future. I think the majority of us would prefer to see Bill Johnston get a good injury free run. JJ unfortunately just isn’t consistent enough. I too would be dubious of Tyler’s comeback but fingers crossed all goes well with his recovery. Regarding Keatley, I’ve actually been really impressed by him overall for the last two years. He’s not world class, but can certainly do a job for us.
@Bo Jangles Gavigan:
Ya , but at this point. We need more , then a player that can ‘do a job for us’.
If we are to push on, we need better, if not were not going to be competing for silverware, and will have to settle with a semi final.
Again
@Paddy Waggon: Yeah agreed, I guess that’s why I’m hoping either Tyler does make a full recovery because on his day he’s a fantastic player or that we Bill Johnston is the great red hope for the future.
Is be very skeptical of a TB return, Neil Francis wrote a good article about 18 months ago comparing TB’s neck injury to a car breaking its axel, ‘there’s only so much you can do to patch it up because eventually it will breakdown and stop working’. This was his second neck injury. Think we need to put a lot more trust in Bill Johnston like the other provinces have done with their young players.
@Barry Mullane: You lost me at Neil Francis.
@Leo Erah: I think the point still stands, it’s not as if you can replace your neck. An arm or leg injury you could give it your best shot but I think there’ll always be a worry about a back,neck or head injury!
@Leo Erah: in fairness to Francis when he discusses injuries, doping etc he’s pretty on the money.
@Barry Mullane: agreed. Francis has been phenomenal with his career post rugby. He is now a qualified orthopedic consultant with access to all the players and their rehab programs. It allows him to write really informed articles on their potential to return from injury. Thank god because without it his opinion would be worth sweet fcuk all.
@Barry Mullane: Francis is hardly ever on the money. Francis hasn’t a clue about Bleyendaal’s injury. He was probably saying the same thing about Cian Healy when he was struggling with his neck injury
@Barry Mullane: detective Ruck inspector Francis.
If Carbery (and his advisors) were thinking straight, he’d be begging to come to Munster – why? Because he would then be playing regularly with Murray, giving him a huge advantage over any other out-halves.
Ian Keatley’s game has improved so much in the past 2 seasons, mainly because of his own hard work & application, and also having the world no.1 scrumhalf alongside him. I’ve been a big Keatley fan, but am now reluctantly of the view that he’s unlikely to progress further (hope he proves otherwise !) and it’s time for us to look elsewhere.
A Carbery/Murray partnership would be admirable, and could be good for Munster and the player himself.
If this were New Zealand, there would be no fuss like at present, and the NZRU would do what they felt was best for their purposes i.e. identify suitable All-Blacks. If we aspire to challenge for a World Cup, that’s exactly what we should be doing too !
Very disappointed that Bill Johnson wasn’t given a run out on Saturday especially as there was nothing in the match for Munster.
I wouldn’t be holding my breath that TB is going to be the man to bring the EC back to Munster, IK was never going to be anything more than a decent Pro14 player and it looks like the boat has sailed for JJ.
Very disappointing as with a decent out half Munster are building a squad capable of going all the way.
I’d have no problem with JC coming down but ONLY if he really, REALLY wants to.
@Stanley Marsh: he should have been in Dublin with Garryowen if they weren’t going to play him
I’m sad to see Gerbrandt Grobler go. He has been mightly impressive. He was MOM for me on Saturday. Still he’s relatively young and if he keeps on doing what he’s doing then he has a good future ahead of him.
Personally I think JJ just needs more time playing at 10. JJ has the X factor and can create moments that win games., he just needs a bit more time to get his groove back. The thing is that in professional sport I don’t know if Munster have the luxury of giving him the game time at 10 that he needs.
@BlueSkyThinking: JJ had xfactor. A combination of four years of injuries and three years of poor coaching mean his game has not progressed at all. Going to Northampton did nothing for his development. Consequently a player who many viewed as the potential long term successor to Sexton, is third choice at his province and plays more games at 15 then 10. I really hope next season goes better for him.
The first line of paragraph 4 is so telling. Murray is right. Plenty of Munster fans have asked that question. But when one Leinster fan here jokingly suggested POM should move to Dublin, he was labeled a clown and a Muppet etc.
@grandslamkbo: to be fair he mentioned that in the article just after munster lost to racing and o mahony said he was sick of losing. Whether it was a poor joke as Chris said or a poor attempt at a dig it doesn’t matter but it’s perfectly understandable that people would take it the wrong way at that time and in no way is it comparable to the Carbery and Byrne stories that are doing the rounds at the moment.
@Jim Demps: it was a poor timed joke and not a dig. Oh I also asked Paul O’Connell once to join Leinster as we needed a good secondrow. They look he gave me just proved my point, he would have been perfect for us. Ah well.
Look as far as Leinster and munster go we need each other to be as strong as possible. The fact we both made the Semi’s in Europe two years in a row and bagged a grandslam shows what happened when we are both strong.
Fair play to Tyler Blyendaal wanting to play on after a neck fusion surgery. I wouldn’t chance it for my life personally but hopefully he recovers the form of last season for Munster.
‘…..yeah I do….’ to a direct question on TB playing next season vs ‘……..hopefully makes a full recovery…’ is mixed messaging at its best.