Cork's Joyce waits to learn extent of leg injury as Cronin set to miss rest of league

@Jim Demps: yeah, I’m not passing comment one way or the other on Kilcoyne, just wondering if it’s fair to say McGrath is complacent.

@Jim Demps: Jack has been in good form since returning from his injury and was v good off the bench against Argentina too, his scrummaging, tackle and ruck stats back that up and he was again very good last week.

Ireland are very rarely chasing games these days (thank god) and I think Jack offers what Joe wants from a sub prop a seamless transition from the starter to finisher.

I agree tho that Killer needed more game time and maybe he could’ve started or been a bench option vs Argentina considering they were down to their 3rd and 4th choice Tightheads

It’s great for Cian and Jack that the likes of Killer, Cronin and Buckley are playing great rugby it keeps them on their twos. We have great depth at Lh imo. But I still think only 2 will go to the wc. Can see Cian and Jack being the 2.

@Ian Verdon: yeah I’d say you’re right there. It’s unlikely killer or Cronin will break into any match day squad. Schmidt clearly doesn’t rate them which is fair enough.

@Jim Demps: He rates Killer over Cronin thats for sure, I prefer Cronin tbh but my opinion matters not. I think Killer should’ve been given more opportunities last year for sure but in the summer tour and since coming back from injury I think Jack’s form has been as good as anyone’s. Cian is just on another level when he’s on top form.

Jack gives that dependability that Joe loves, he gives away very few pens and his work load when coming off the bench is exceptional( not saying Killers isn’t) he must be proving to Joe tho in training that he deserves to be the 2nd choice Lh so that’s more than enough for me.

I know being a Munster man you want to see Killer there and so you should. There’s not a lot between the two it Jack overall is the more all rounded prop.

@Paddington C.: i understand what you’re saying but if he was good enough to be a lion then he should be pushing harder behind healy. I know that healy is a very good player but the gap between them is a country mile and jack doesn’t look like he’s going to do anything about it anytime soon

@Jim Demps: I think it’s harsh on Kilcoyne to say Scmidt clearly doesn’t rate him. Just because he rates McGrath more doesn’t mean he doesn’t rate Kilcoyne at all. Schmidt clearly rates Sexton the most and Carbery the second most, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t rate Ross. He rates eveyone in line, I’m sure he rates Carty even if Carty is too far down the pecking order to get called into the squad. There is a pecking order for Scmidt if the people he thinks best capable of executing his game plan and I’d say it’s 10 deep in every position, he doesn’t rate or not rate guys in the way that an Eddie O’Sullivan type coach used to.

@Eoin Murphy: When Healy is on top form there’s very few if any looseheads than can match him in the world, he’s on another level to any other Irish looseheads.

Every player goes through dips in form(Healy did a couple of years ago) and Jacks form last year was poor by his very high standards he has set over the 4-5 years previous to that but it’s improving again. There is a gap between Healy and Jack but I still see there being a slight gap between Jack and killer/Cronin. Again Joe wouldn’t be picking him if he wasn’t ticking all the required boxes in training so he must be doing most of what Joe requires right.

@Paddington C.: totally agree

@Eoin Murphy: yeah, just to add to what Ian said, you have to remember that when McGrath was #1 and Healy was #17 it was because Healy was playing way below his best (and was suffering from nerve damage), not because McGrath was playing way above what he is now. McGrath is probably slightly below his best, but Healy is right back on top form and for as long as he is playing on top for he’ll be #1.

@Paddington C.: I’m talking in terms of selection. While I’d agree that McGrath has a higher ceiling I’d say that kilcoyne has been playing the better rugby this season and last. His form certainly warranted a look in at either the Argentinian or NZ games off the bench but he got neither. A cameo, albeit an impressive one, against Italy and a more than likely start against the US won’t tell us anything about whether or not he can hack it against the big teams.

@Jim Demps: not getting into The Who’s better but McGrath’s form has not been poor it’s just not as good as Healy’s or the form he’s shown before the lions.

@Chris Mc: I’m not getting into that either. All being fit id go with Healy and McGrath. Just saying that Killer deserved an opportunity given his form. A bench place against the argies would have been fair reward.

@Jim Demps: picking a sub on the basis that he’s better if we are chasing a game is irrelevant for most all of Ireland’s games. We very rarely are in positions that we are chasing games. The vast vast majority of the time we need our bench to continue what’s already happening on the pitch and not give away anything silly.

@Jim Demps: The could be said about Rhys, Conan, Beirne, Bealham, Scannell to name a few. Again we don’t have the opportunity to see which players are impressing Joe in training and obviously Jack is otherwise he wouldn’t be selected. I think if he came back from his injury this season and was poor then he would’ve been dropped but he’s been in good form and he proved that against Argentina and New Zealand.

Form isn’t the only factor that decides ones place if it was there would be considerable changes to the match day 23. It’s all about which players are best in putting Joe’s systems and tactics for each specific game in training onto the playing field. Joe must think Jack is the best 17 option atm and his performances and the teams results are backing up Joe’s selection process.

@Jim Demps: Jim did you ever consider even for a second that Healy and Mc Grath are simply better.
Saturday proved it.
The last 2 lions tours provide rich evidence as well.

@Paddington C.: fair point

@Oran Burns: i think you’re missing my point. My last post clearly says that I think they are better. I’m simply saying that killer never got an opportunity to show what he can do

@Ian Verdon: my point isn’t about who’s better. It’s about someone who’s playing well and not getting an opportunity against someone who’s maybe not playing to their best ability. The same could be said for Beirne and cooney certainly.

@Chris Mc: if giving away silly penalties was the criteria then Healy wouldn’t be near the team. We both know there are a lot of factors at play here. I would have picked McGrath against NZ but killer should have had a run against Argentina. If you don’t think so then fair enough but he’s putting up his hand for selection and isn’t getting the chance in my book.

@Jim Demps: I get you but I think over his last 4-5 appearances Jack has proved he is playing as well as or (in Joe’s opinion) better than Killer so I don’t see it as a battle of who’s in form as they both are(wasn’t the case last season I accept). Beirne can feel a little aggrieved but Toner has proved how essential he is in deploying Joe’s game plan and Hendy was v good off the bench but as I said before his time will come. Cooney for me is the only one who can feel genuinely hard done by but again Lukey must be adapting to Joe’s systems better also another big benefit for him is that he has a personal and professional relationship with all 3 Irish tens and that is a big factor in choosing a 9.

@Jim Demps: Has Kilcoyne not had 22 Irish caps to show what he can do?

@Jim Demps: I never said it was. Just that our subs are more likely asked to do more of the same than change things up.
Some players are just behind players who can’t be shifted.
Ruddock is a bit like kilcoyne and deserves to be first choice apart from the fact POM is just the perfect 6 and is not for moving. He may just have to bide his time and take his chance when it comes along and it will come.

@Andrew Hurley: I’d say he’s done very well this last year. 23 caps sure but the majority of them were against much weaker sides.

@Chris Mc: it certainly looks like Schmidt has no intention of making changes at loosehead anyway.

@Jim Demps: 15 of his 22 caps have been against Tier 1 nations.